Captain not so fantastic imo. Does anyone else feel he is actually starting to hold us back now? His complete lack of movement on the field is evident for all to see and his hollywood passes seem to be all he has in his locker now. Lucas isn't the most mobile either and is a shadow of his former self, but the two of them at the heart of our team makes us very average in midfield and leave our defence exposed.
Disagree about Lucas. Think I seem to be one of the few who still think he's a good player for us but is being hindered by Gerrard alongside him. But yeah, Gerrard can't play 90minutes. He has to hold back to last the distance but he'd be far better playing 50/60mins at a higher tempo.
it's such an obvious weak spot for us so I expect it will be addressed in January, but yes Stevie should used more sparingly nowadays.
Joint 2nd in the league though and he's been a good player all season other than Saturday which was a performance even his biggest fans can't defend. Lucas again has played well overall and has started looking for those forward passes again other than sideways. I think that the Gerrard Lucas thing works well as long as Henderson is also in the midfield and with Coutinho back we can go back to that formation.
Oh please!!! Just have a look at Gerrards stats before you start talking about Hollywood passes. Perhaps the question should be put in another way. Why isn't Henderson doing the running for him as they do for Pierlo? This is probaby his last full season so get the most out his rare talent. Unless of course you can come up with another player of equal quality that can immediately slot-in?
I'm not one to jump on Gerrard's back but against Arsenal he was shocking. Looked so slow, passing wasn't great, isn't good enough defensively and hasn't got the energy to play box to box for 90 minutes. He's certainly got a big role to play and I'm not judging him on one game just my thoughts on Saturday. Saying that, everyone played pretty crap but just used to high standards from him.
No room in this game for sentiment and I think the likes of Gerrard, Lucas, Agger and Skrtel get away with far too much because they are part of the old brigade. For some reason, this doesn't apply to Johnson, he just gets stick regardless. That's not me writing them off BTW, just saying some need to open their eyes and see they are no longer what they were. Least BR as looked at the CB issue. I expect CM to be next.
Au contraire mon ami. I will take note of stats when they support an argument. I argue against them when people use stats in isolation and then base an argument upon them!
So, you pick and chose when to listen to them I actually agree with your view here, stats can be useful if use appropriately. I only said the above because you're always putting stats down
I have not looked properly at the stats Dave (they'll tell you anything lol) and I'm not pointing the finger solely at Gerrard but despite our improved points tally there has been a period of the game, nearly every game where it looked like we didn't have a midfield. I don't know how many times this year it looks like 5 running at Lucas and last year it looked the same running at both him and Allen in turn. Using Henderson as a crutch for Gerrard is fine and dandy against West Brom and will probably be again against Fulham: teams that will not pressure high and play a fast paced passing game around our midfield 3 allow Gerrard that little bit more time to be effective. I also think to do this effectively against better teams Hendo has to be positionally aware all the time in relation to Gerrard and I just don't think he is good enough to do both. A big engine isn't enough. Should we buy a midfielder who is good at this for the sake of one more Gerrard year or buy the Gerrard replacement as soon as possible? I'd also suggest that if we proposed playing players simply to prop another that wasn't Gerrard we'd say if he can't hack it in a particular game he shouldn't be on the pitch yet we talk about others propping Gerrard up. As always with this question the simple answer is that he's still one of our best mudfielders but only if he's allowed to play. He's pointless against teams like Arsenal where he's never quite back or front and resorts to the big pass. No question he's very good at them but do you honestly think that 2 less skilled but more mobile players like Allen or Alberto and Henderson would not have faired better on Saturday? Yes there would have been less chance of that killer ball or cross but also less chance of being overrun. If we insist on playing him for 90 minutes every game then he has to either be used against the better teams as DM and be disciplined about it or as AM behind the strikers with no defensive responsibilities. The moment he starts having to do both he does neither. And are we prepared to ditch Lucas for a year to accommodate G? We can be more flexible with Coutinho but again are we guranteed enough success to warrant keeping him out wide % putting Gerrard in AM? Personally I'd rather he was used in bursts each game. It's not a criticism of him, merely an acceptence that he's ran himself into the ground for us and we're not using him effectively and making him look past it. If he has an outstanding 20_30 minutes each game this season chipping in with goals and assists no ones going to count the minutes he played.
It's not often that he plays better for England than he does for Liverpool but this season he has... Not sure what to make of that. Realising this is his last ever chance to make an impression in an England shirt while realising that how ever well he plays he'll never lift the title with us?
Excellent post DF The bit I highlighted fits in with my post (#7) about sentiment too. In addition, if we were to play Henderson and Lucas to accommodate Gerrard, how long will it take the opposition to figure out that Gerrard is our main playmaker and cut him out of the game?
I also want to see what the rest of our midfield is made of without him. We know we need a Gerrard replacement in the next 18 or so months but what else do we need? Do we think any of the current lot are standing in Gerrards shadow or are they hiding in it? I mean Henderson went back to looking terrified with the ball at his feet on Saturday. How many believe he will shine in a post Gerrard era? What about Allen? It's clear that Gerrard thwarts BR's passing team ethos which has basically made Allen an abandoned spare wheel. Gerrards always been a direct player either with running or his sweeping passes. What type of player do we need beside Allen if he's to be worth the money we spent on him? There's Alberto but we've not seen much of him. And without the Europa or Carling cups we'll not see a lot of the 'others'. Does anyone honestly think it's just about reverting to back four or the return of Johnson & Enrique that's needed?
He cuts himself out of games against teams who half a half mobile midfield and run at him...no need to worry about that
I don't believe we need a Gerrard replacement as such. Why try to do the impossible? We aren't going to get another Steven Gerrard so we need to move on and build something new.
Said this before the Arsenal game and I think its exactly what happened. We got outnumbered in midfield. The 3-5-2 just didn't work. To blame it on Gerrard or Lucas is just harsh.
Yes sorry,I read it after I finished the meandering lol. Do you think Lucas has lost his edge due to the injuries or because he's feeling overwhelmed at the task set him at the moment? It's got to be pretty hard going into each match knowing no matter how well you play there's going to be two or three occasions the opposition simply pass it around you when yet again isolated. If it's the task set, then no problem once he gets the support he'll be back to best. If it's lost the edge then we need to look at it some more. No point having a player suited to only one position if he can't excel at it. Again though it's who you could get that would even be better than Today's Lucas. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt simply because of the mess BR is throwing around him at the moment. My gut tells me that if it becomes a choice between Gerrard & Lucas BR will opt for the captain.
So in essence hope that BR will bring in the new "final 3" that replace a Gerrard dominated midfield but just accept we'll not see it working until Gerrard hangs up the boots? In the meantime: lets say we go back to a back four. Or get lucky and Enrique & Johnson stay fit. We know our top 2 We rubberstamp Gerrard and Coutinho if available. Under those circumstances do we have the right two more midfielders to get us the CL spot? Obviously impact subs etc etc but do we have the right two more in a midfield 4 or three that will work well enough to win enough games?
