Afternoon all I have been looking through the internet trying to see what ppl regard as a gambling yard as Curley has always been a man that when the moneys down it very rarely gets left behind and i wondered what your thoughts might be as to say the top 3 yards for gambles in NH and Flat racing?
Ask stick The Pipe yard are well known for getting one ready and putting the kids dinner money on it, unfortunately they don't seem to come off very often these days for whatever reason. Jonjo O'Neil likes to run a young horse in 3 novice hurdles to no effect then get it in a handicap off about 95 and see it bolt up.
John Ryan, Sir Mark Prescott, and Jeremy Gaske are the 3 that immediately spring to mind on the flat. If one of there horses with poor to moderate form is well fancied in the market, then 9 times out of 10 they run a much improved race
Tony Carroll on the flat. Very shrewd and usually punts his fancied ones. David Bridgewater over the jumps, punts them and usually does the business too.
You have the renowned ones that have been mentioned and he notorious ones like Jim Best. I'd give an honourable mention to the Easterby's.
Most yards are gambling yards, the crucial thing is knowing that its the yard money that's shifting the price! Wigham & Prescott on the flat. Newland and Longsdon over jumps. Ian Williams is pretty shrewd on both codes.
Agree Stick I reckon 90% of gambles are not the yards money, I think most big moves in the market are down to your every day punter looking through the form book and fancying the horse. Also tipsters like price wise and many others can start gambles. I think you also get false gambles, when a well known handicap plotter like Pipe enters a horse in a handicap, people just expect the horse to be a plot even if it isn't, so punters start lumping on at the early prices in the morning which starts the ball rolling for a gamble, until every mug in the country is following the money. I think this happens quite a lot
one yard that isn't is Mark Johnson --with patronage he has, there is no need--but for small yards i'd say it is essential for survival --dai burchell is a true gambling yard, although even he has 'suprise/big price winners'--(not often though)--but , surely you'd be a soft one not to gamble on a fancy(in the yard ) --racing would not exist in its present form without gambling, so your question should be the other way--which yards are not ?
Excellent thread. In my lifetime I don’t think anyone can compare with ‘Daddy’ Martin when it comes to getting a horse ridiculously well handicapped, picking the right race, punting the horse with a capital ‘P’ and then heading for the old ‘payout window’. Although in saying that he did have the ‘magic fridge’ aiding and abetting him in all this. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more... But whatever when it comes to plotting and then punting one this yard, in its pomp, had few equals. Of course to have a proper punt, in most cases, you have to get a horse extremely well handicapped in the first place and in my time 3 trainers on the level have been particular adept at doing this in one way or another. One is regarded as an almighty rogue (Prescott) whilst the other 2 are seen as being entirely honourable and bastions of our sport! The latter pair are old boy Gosden and John Dunlop. There is also a small Wiltshire yard who do very, very well when they punt one. When the money is down rarely do those bookie chappies emerge unscathed. That’s the barn of Michael Blake. They have mainly average horses, at best, but he certainly understands the handicapping system and can perform punting miracles under either code. However, the warning has to be that when a yard gets identified as a gambling one there beasts are then backed to ridiculous proportions and any ‘value’ odds disappear quicker than you can say ‘cor blimey, how bally short is that one’. The key is identifying these trainers before, I say before, they become fashionable with the ordinary punter.
As Ste says Tony the gangsta Martin would be the first springs to mind. Whilst not a gambling yard in the typical sense of running something a stone well in, the Mullins yard certainly know the time of day with theirs, especially bumper horses. Obviously they run a lot of short priced beasts, but if theres late money and a shortie goes shorter, very rare the moneys left behind. The one who won the bumper last night was available 10/11 15minutes before the off, won at 1/2 by an easy 4lengths. The opposites the case, if a Mullins shortie looks uneasy before the off, they usually don't win. Know their onions down there that's for sure... Regarding Pipes I'd say there's far more false gambles with theres now than just about any other yard! A layers stable maybe
A golden rule for me is never follow money blindly, id never even consider backing a horse just because there is money around for it. It also doesn't concern me at all when they drift, as I just take the view that other punters don't see the form the way I do, which doesn't concern me. And as far as information and tips from people who are supposedly in the know, I find jockeys trainers and owners are the worst tipsters in the world. I found that out the hard way when I was working in the bookmaking industry. You have to look at these people like football fans, they are biased towards their own, so will always think there horse is better than it is, and will always see a race with little objectiveness. It's just human nature to be like that
This is a load of old bollocks Boily. Not trying to be offensive old boy but a couple of points: 1) every yard likes to back their horses if they think it's well handicapped or a ready. 2) genuine barney curly gambles are few and far between. 3) pipe gambles are more often than not false money. I agree with this. Wrote a lengthy response basically saying that every yard bets their fancied horses. Most yards are nowhere near as good at they think they are and lose more often that they win. Pipe gambles are definitely not what they used to be. Most of the time the price moves on their horses isn't their money. If they regularly battered the bookies the accounts would either be blocked or they'd have 'special accounts' whereby the bookies fund a certain amount for genuine knowledge, allow the bets to be struck and then use that knowledge to shorten prices. Bookies have media men on ATR and the like all the time and they're not there to flag up potentially expensive punts gents. They're there to get the word out in favourable circumstances.
Fair point Bob, I agree every stable gambles in some way or another, just some are more known for it than others. The gambles on Pipe horses, especially at the Cheltenham festival really do make me laugh, it's as if the public think that he's the only trainer in the race who's plotted his horse to peak on the big day. You see them 7/2 favourite in 24 runner handicaps and people are still lumping on. I can tell you first hand that the bookmakers love laying these type of horses, as they no the value is well in their favour
Fourth and 1, ball on one yard line. Bet on the yard or take the three? We are talking football, right?
