I know theres been much said of the brilliant Frankel in the days before today and there will be much said after his impressive win today at Ascot, But I have to say hes probably the best thoroughbred I've seen on a racecourse, I've been lucky enough to be around to see some great Champions including another of Khalid Abdullah's Dancing Brave who I always regarded the best I've witnessed even after Sea The Star's heroics in 2009. I guess it was the BBC's coverage on Frankel throughout Champions Day that built up the suspense and he didn't dissapoint, To be a filly as good as Immortal Verse by 7 and half lengths is some performance and in a different year Marco Botti's Excelebration would have been Champion Miler, Frankel as had his doubters but surely they must be silenced now. I look forward to this imperious horse next year. Just brilliant...
Just checking in as we drive back from Ascot. What a fabulous day! I've never seen a horse clapped in to and out of the parade ring, and I've never seen a paddock so full! I managed to get a spot on the rail at the paddock to take photos and people were just pouring in. The roar as he cruised home was deafening and after the race people, myself included, were running through the grandstand to greet him back. I managed to get some good photos and will try to post them over the next few days.
I look forward to them PN. He is a proper racehorse from the looks of him, And like all the greats as that aura of specialness!
He was impressive once again. I actually believe Excelebration is a very good horse , and if it wasn't for Frankel would have won alot of big races including the 2000 Guineas, as he would have run in that, had he not been so easily beat in the Greenham by Frankel. It's amazing how easily Frankel has beaten top class horses, 2 conquerers of the so called "great" Goldikova have attempted to beat Frankel. Canford Cliffs and Immortal Verse have been thrashed by Frankel. To beat Immortal Verse 7 lenghs is an unbelievable effort, and I feel the French horse ran to similar form as she did when beating Goldikova. My only criticism of Frankel as far as comparing him to the all time greats, would be his very easy schedule. His schedule this season has been nothing compared to the schedule Sea The Stars had to deal with, John Oxx could have quite easily avoided any or all of the Eclipse, Juddmonte or Irish Champion but he ran in them all and still managed to do the business in the Arc. This is obviously not down to Frankel, this is down to Henry Cecil being over cautious. He claims the horse will stay 1m2, so why didn't Frankel run in the Juddmonte? or why didn't they run him in the tougher Champion Stakes today, with more prize money on offer? They could have even taken in the Prix Jaques Morais over a mile, which is traditionally the French champion mile race, or even the Irish Guineas. Frankel has run in 1 prep race, and 4 G1s. So only 5 times, I personally feel they could have run him atleast twice more. Either way, despite the easy schedule he is a fantastic horse, though I'm not convinced he can be called the best ever, particularly when he only runs in 4 G1s a season. Brigadier Gerards reputation as the greatest milerever is still in tact as far as I'm concerned
"Greatest ever" is a subjective thing in horse racing, given the different distances, races, and courses. He is an amazing miler. He has been worlds apart from horses who are world class in their own right, like Excelebration and Immortal Verse. He's have pulverised Goldikova as well, as much as I love her. He has an extra gear in hand. Best miler I have ever seen. We should thank our lucky stars we have seen one like this. Let's do all the talking at the end of his career, and enjoy his performances for as long as we are fortunate enough to have him.
*checks this thread* *expects to find KS using thread as an excuse to have a dig at Goldikova* *is proved right* Frankel is a class horse, hope to see even more next year
It's testament to the horse's amazing ability that, if anything, I initially thought today's performance was visually not his best. But then I looked at the horses he beat and it does just reinforce what a great performance it was - to win 4 lengths going away from Excelebration and Immortal Verse was some performance. I actually think he is better (or do I mean more visually exciting?) ridden from the front like in the Sussex Stakes, this allows Queally to gradually wind it up and just run the others into submission. Today he put the afterburners on 3F out and opened up 3 lengths which the others were never going to pull back. He was going away again at the end and if today's race were 9F he would have won 8-10 lengths. Can't wait for next season
Kiyonemakibi....Well Goldikova is widely recognised as a "great" people were haling her the best miler ever. So surely it is relevant when assessing Frankel, particularly when Frankel is hammering horse's she has struggled against. Though ofcourse Goldikova is a miles better horse than Frankel, with her 14 G1s compared to Frankels 5
Oddog....He was never going to win by far today, as they went very slow. They ignored the pacemaker which ment Frankel wasnt quickening away from tired horse's, he was kicking away from horse's full of running. Had they all followed the pacemaker, I believe Frankel would have won by alot further
Agree with that Shergar. This horse is frightening. I do not think the race was run to suit him by any means today. They went too steady for starters and still he was by far the best. I am not sure whether he is the 'greatest' horse ever as yet, but i fully expect him to be this time next year. But i am in absolutely no doubt that he is the 'best' ever. No horse has ever had more pure natural ability than the monster that is Frankel. Sublime to watch and i feel privileged to have been there to see him on four occasions, including his brilliant performance today. Hopefully there will be many more days to come.
Frankel a god send for British racing, an amazing horse, a freak of nature for sure. Roll on next year and let's see what he can do over 10f.
to me Frankel is so good over 7f that nothing can catch him over 8. yet again, given that the pacemaker was ignored so the pace was slow and he won easy. Just as he did in the Sussex when they crawled for the first 2fs. You run him over a stiff 8f and he's tested, eg royal ascot where queally went for home far to early, and he struggles home. just look at the times he's run, nothing out of this world. don't get me wrong, he's the best miler around at the minute and rightly the highest rated horse in the world but he'll have to do a hell of a lot more to be the best ever imho. If he goes on to win over 10f I take back everything I've said. I want to buy into the Frankel bandwagon and despite not betting on the race I was delighted he won again but I take a lot of convincing.... Any chance of a run at the Breeders Cup meet????
Zenyatta....I'm sorry mate, but even though you've agreed with me, I have to disagree with parts of your post. Judging by your username, I'd imagine you are either young or have only recently caught the horse Racibg bug. There have been many horses over the years with exceptional ability, so to say Frankel has more natural ability than anything else is wrong. Shergar was the most naturally talented horse to ever race. The Derby has been going for 250 years + and no horse has ever won by 10 lengths, and Shergar didn't just win by 10, he pulled 15 clear and was eased for atleast half a furlong. Had he been pushed out to the line it would have been 20. The horse that finished 2nd Glint Of Gold then went on to win 6 G1s. Shergar was a one off, and as good as Frankel is, I don't believe he should be rated above Shergar. There have been others aswell, the likes of Arazi, and Dubai Millenium, that are atleast the equal of Frankel on raw talent. I'm not knocking Frankel, I do rate him as one of the greats, but not the greatest. I also cannot be having the fact he has only competed in 4 races at the highest level this season. Rock of Gibralter stuck to a mile and he ran in 7 G1 mile races at 3. Frankel has been placed far to carefully, and wrapped in cotton wool to much to be even considered the greatest ever
Toon....When looking at times you must compare them to times run on the same day, and you also must take into account how the race was run. In the guineas Frankel was allowed to make his own running and he posted a ridiculously fast time in comparison to the times of the other races that day. You can ignore the run in the St James's Palace, it was a dreadful ride from a very poor jockey, kicking for home at midway was one of the most ridiculous moves in big race history from any jockey, even a claimer wouldn't be so stupid, but despite the muppet on his back Frankel was still able to overcome the poor ride and win. I honestly believe that had any other horse been given the same ride by Queally that day then they would have lost, that is how good Frankel is. Frankel has never been in a race where his rivals have gone a fast gallop, so he has never had the opportunity to get a lead, and set a fast time. So it's very naive to suggest he isn't capable of producing a fast time
I not sure but i think i might have read that before . . . . I am 21 by the way! Shergar i have already commented on your inability to accept the opinions of others as anything other than wrong when they differ with your own. In my opinion Frankel is the most talented horse i have ever seen, either live or in videos, and that includes Shergar. Your opinion is different which does not mean that mine is wrong, but it does not mean that you are wrong either. Timeform 143 for Frankel and 140 for Shergar.
As far as pace goes, and I can't find the sectionals at the moment, in the Guineas Frankel achieved times in the first three furlongs akin to G1 sprint pace. Watch his races back and look at nothing but the horses legs. His stride just devours the ground and compared to the other horses he almost appears to take 1 stride to their 2. Sea the Stars was a fantastic horse, and his achievements in his 3yo season were unparalleled - as a reader's letter in the Racing Post said last week, in 2011 and 2010 it took 6 different horses to win the same 6 G1 races that STS did in the same year. An achievement that is unlikely to be matched for a very long time. I do however believe that Frankel is at the very least on the same level, if not better than STS. As Zenyatta says, everyone has, and is entitled to, a different opinion and the fact that we may not have seen previous top class horses in the flesh does not diminish that opinion. Heck, I consider myself a reasonable judge of horseflesh but I was only 3 weeks old when Shergar won the Derby! Does that make my opinion worth less? Surely not! All I can say is let's all look forward to next season with baited breath. It's surely going to be one to savour! As far as BC goes, whilst it hadn't been ruled out completely, I'd say it is doubtful he will go this year. Sir Henry has already said he is not a fan of Churchill Downs as a track and to get the horse in the race they will need to take a decision in the next few days so that they can get quarantine arrangements ready. My guess is they'll see how he travels over shorter distances first, ie send him to France or Ireland. He's known for being a bit of a stress head in the past and you really don't want to find out how well a horse travels overseas for the first time in a plane over the Atlantic!
Shergar, I'm not suggesting he can't I'm suggesting he hasn't. Subtle difference. As I say if he goes on to stay 10f then I'm wrong but I just wonder whether a stiff 8f would find him out. Otherwise what is the point of running Bullet Train as a pacemaker and then running him so far in front he's ignored? yes it's possible Frankel likes having something to chase or it's possible they actually wanted a slow pace because if it turns into a sprint what's going to beat him? His win in the Guineas was unbelievable granted. I'm not denying he's not a world class horse but he needs to do more if he wants to be the best ever imho. That's a shame PN, I'd love to see him hand it to the Yanks
I haven't got time to read all the comments as I've only popped in for a cuppa and I'm back outside trying to get the critical bits of our arena finished before the bad weather. I expect just about everyone is drooling over Frankel's performance yesterday and there is no doubt he couldn't have been much more impressive. I did say there was only way to beat him and they didn't even attempt it. They ignored the pacemaker, effectively allowing Queally to ride the race to suit. Putting the race into perspective: (a) he has now beaten the same horse 3 times (b) the time was over 2 seconds outside the course record. In isolation, that means sod all; but just 30 minutes later in the Champion Stakes, the course record was broken. We need to see Frankel "destroy" So You Think over 8f and 10f as I think a course record could well go and leave no doubt whatsoever. At present he has not convinced me he is as good as Brigadier Gerard or Dubai Millennium. I won't be hanging around for a good kicking. He is an amazing looking animal and I actually think that, given the competition, he could well prove to be the best ever, but he hasn't actually achieved it yet, just given a very, very strong hint.
