Try as I might, I cannot take any satisfaction from the point we gained at Wolves. We threw away two more points which might be critical come the end of the season. How or why was this allowed to happen? The MOTD pundits, to a man, agreed that we dominated 90% of the game. Alan Hansen described us as "cruising". There was no way that we should have left that ground without a morale boosting, invaluable three points under our belt. We didn't, so it is fair enough to ask, why not? This has nothing to do with lack of experience in the PL - Wolves looked like an average Championship side to me. They huffed and puffed and caused the odd problem from time to time but, let's face it, they were poor! Personally, I put it down to lack of fitness, something I have been banging on about for the past two seasons. It is no secret that we come under the cosh many times late in games. It happens far too often to be coincidence. Last season, in similar vein, I compared us to Norwich on the old 606 Board. Whereas we tended to wilt like ice cream in a blast furnace in the latter stages of a game, Norwich seemed to get stronger, piling on the pressure until the opposition finally caved in. We all know how many points they amassed in the last five minutes of their matches, whereas we seemed to be hanging on for dear life - and often, we failed to do it and lost points. Is there some antagonism towards producing fit, strong athletes at the Liberty? I honestly get the impression that someone there is taking the view that our football ethic is too precious to be compromised by producing players capable of doing the ugly things in football. Ugly but so necessary. I watched the game on the net and the commentators were both of the opinion that our players were "leggy" for the last 10 minutes. It agreed entirely with what I was watching. A different commentator on MOTD came to the same opinion. Are we all wrong? Are we all seeing something that isn't there? I don't think so. Now, if I as someone who knows something about the game, but a layman in professional terms, can see, and have identified this problem for a considerable time, how come this has patently not been addressed by the Liberty coaching staff? They have eyes, can they not see what the rest of us see? Buck (his crap substitutions didn't help) offered the opinion that the players decided to play it safe and began to pass the ball backwards as a tactical ploy that misfired. Garbage! The players didn't push forward in the last 10 minutes because their legs had gone. Simple as. It is easier to sit back to try and absorb pressure, shuffling about for short distances, than go galloping into the acres of open space that Wolves left behind them when they were pushing forward. Norwich would have done that and Norwich probably would have scored in that period. We didn't because our players were not fit enough to exploit the situation. They had energy sufficient only to crab about in and around our penalty area and we threw away the points because of that. I know it and Buck knows it. Talent, ability, flair, call it what you will, is of limited value in a team sport without the hard work and fitness to go with it. Look at the top clubs, the successful clubs. They have bags of talent but they all have the strength, fitness and power to go with it. They never give a game up with 10 minutes to go and, usually, they are the teams who go on to grab the last gasp goals that win matches. How often do Man Utd do that? We've all seen it. What galls me is that fitness is the EASIEST thing for a footballer to achieve. You can't put flair, ability and talent into a player who hasn't got it but you sure as hell can get him fit. Let's look at Norwich again, a team who came up with us. I mean them no disrespect because they are doing themselves proud but there is no way that Norwich could ever replicate our footballing ethic as a team because we have been doing it for years; whereas we could certainly instil their fitness ethic into our players in a reasonable period of time. Put the two together and you have a tremendously potent combination. I will finish by citing a close-to-home example. For years we knew the Welsh rugby team had talent to spare yet they continually under-achieved. Why? Gatland sussed it. The body couldn't do what the mind asked of it. He saw to it that the talent we possessed was, for the first time ever, harnessed to a degree of fitness that is demanded at the highest levels. The result? Wales confounded the critics and, but for a quirk of fate, could have been asking severe questions of New Zealand in a World Cup Final. What price that scenario 18 months ago? And what price the Swans bury their heads in the sand and carry on in the same old comfortable way?
I agree whole heartedly Ivor, and it's something that is easily addressed, and needs to be, but Saturdays game could have easily been seen out for all 3 points, but Rodgers took the two fittest players off the pitch, two players who will always have plenty of fuel in the tank even after the 90 minute whistle has blown, and that cost us dearly, but we need to shift the players that are not fit, and Gower and Monk are struggling, but you are right the whole starting eleven need to up their fitness level, and spending late nights down wind st the night before a game, does not help, and that's another subject!..................... please log in to view this image
Not sure. I think it's more of a mental problem. We seem to lack belief and I don't know why. There's also a worrying tendency to panic. Hansen rightly pointed out our defence was organised and rock solid right up until the 80th minute. But when the first goal went in (which was a scrambled effort) we panicked at the back thereafter. For the second goal we had 6 players bunched up on the left side of the pitch. That created a huge gap for the second goal. Ironic that Hansen said "that's just inexperience" when we have the likes of Monk playing! Cool heads are called for when the kitchen sink is being thrown at you. For the second goal we had 4 defenders out of position chasing the ball instead of marking properly. Learn from it lads!!!
When the legs start to go and fatigue sets in the mind quickly follows and dulls. We were starting to jade in midfield before the first sub. Something needed to be done then as Wolves rightly recognized the situation, subbed their two wingers for central midfield types and put fresh legs and bigger bodies up the middle to exploit the situation. Wolves first goal happened not because we didn't have bodies in place but because they couldn't react in time to stop the one Wolves player for from tapping in the rebound. The second was just a shambles of bodies not doing the little things right and letting panic overcome experience. Sorry but I don't see the "sage" and "experience" in Monk that others claim they see - if it was there, these are the very moments that an on-the-field commander applies that experience - too often he is the one who gets caught out or sucked into a bad situation. Ivor is absolutely right to recognize that we should have been able to close this game out had fatigue not set in; and fitness and stamina are definitely something that can be improved in any athlete. But, another point is that we should have killed the game off much earlier on. We showed no clinical killer instinct from the 40th minute on when we should have bagged another two goals and made the rest moot. This is our second weakness - we tend to sticky to pretty when we should be putting the boot in. There are no points for style in this league. We need to get tougher and we need to get nasty - not physically nasty but mentally clinically nasty when we have the upper hand.
I dont think its fitness i think (as mentio ned above) its more of a mental issue, nerves are getting the better of some of the guys in the last 10mins IMO.
I'm no fan of rugby's Kevin Howley but he hit the nail on the head when speaking about Wales' new found fitness levels. He rates this as one of, if not THE MAJOR reason, of our recent success with the oval ball. He summed it up beautifully when he observed: when you are fit, you are always thinking about the next play rather than the next breath. For me this so sums up the Swans. Anyone who has played this game at a half decent level knows that you HAVE to be fit to perform properly, to do yourself justice. Wolves were begging to be hit on the counter late in the game but we had no one with legs enough to take advantage of it. As I've said, Norwich, a strong, fit and athletic side are admirably equipped to do what we couldn't. They are a 90 minute team. WE ARE NOT!! Wolves had been second best for 85 minutes of that game. They started to come on strongly after 75 minutes and we had no answer. Our passing game is supposed to tire the opposition. It seems to me that it tires us more than them. Something is wrong when a team that has been entirely outclassed can come back at us the way they were allowed to. Agreed, the substitutions did not help but why were they made? Tired legs and fatigue is the main reason, imo. Tactics might have been on Buck's mind but why risk changing something that had worked like clockwork until then? I think that a manager is far more prepared to take flak for a tactical error than he would for his team being not fit enough to do the job at hand - because that would be downright criminal in football terms. We have the skill set, we have the formation, we have the game-plan and we have the players (defence apart) to be a solid and attractive Premiership side. All we need is a bit of steel and the fitness to go with it and I believe that, not only can we stay at this level, but can do so for some time to come. Fingers crossed.
Good thread Ivor (I never know whether to capitalise your name!). I think our system was outclassing Wolves while we were playing at, or near, 100%. As soon as the legs start to go, what we need to do is maintain our system that sees us so well, and makes subs that allow us to do this. Apart from the Routledge/Dyer swap, the other two changed the dynamics, and latterly, the formation! All of a sudden, as well as being tired, the entire team are trying to work out where they need to be on the field, where their mates need to be... it's an unnecessarily complicated situation. Yankee mentions needing cool heads. I think even given Monk's experience, it's a different ball game in this league. By the end of the season, once we've already played every team once, there might be a bit of the "we've been matching world class players, we must be good enough" creeping in, but at the moment I think the boys are probably so focused on the game not a lot else can creep into their minds! The fitness issue was mentioned at the beginning of the season, but seemed to have gone away. How has it resurfaced now? At the current rate it might be worth throwing the FA Cup too just to make sure we're fit enough to stay in the Premiership!
Scott, capitals, no capitals, either way it's still me. It was probably me talking about our fitness at the beginning of the season because I was moaning about it last season as well. I saw far too many games that we dominated, only to be hanging on at the end and I saw too many points lost because of it. I compared us to Norwich then as well mainly because, although I considered our players to be more talented, they were a strong, fit, athletic team that played the last minute as they did the first and reaped the rewards. You must remember the number of times we only just scraped home after totally bossing most of the game. Interesting article again from DBJack about match stats. From the 76th minute on Wolves had 9 shots to our 1. I repeat 9-1!!!!! That sort of stat, I'm convinced, is primarily down to one thing - lack of fitness. It's not coincidence that this is still happening. There has to be a reason and I'm convinced it's down to the player's conditioning. If I were Buck I'd be looking for a top, top fitness coach pretty sharpish and I wouldn't be miserly about the cost - it just might be the final piece of the jigsaw that keeps us in the Premiership.
Further thought, we conceded goals in the last minute to both Man City and Chelsea. Scores of 0-3 and 1-3 seem so much more respectable than what they actually were - and our goal difference would only be minus 3, quite respectable given our away fixtures so far. Correct me if I'm wrong but that already makes 4 goals conceded in the last 5 minutes or so in games. It would be an interesting comparison to measure how many we get against those we concede in the last, say 10 minutes of games, as the season unfolds. Any "statsman" interested in keeping tabs on this? I'd do it myself but for reasons I won't mention, I might well be missing chunks of the season to come. Hope not.
fitness is a major issue with us, we have very few players who are up to scratch but also quite a few are at their level and cant get anymore fitter. most of our players are championship fitness level at best and that's all they will achieve. no matter how much some of the players try they cannot reach the level that is needed for the premiership and never will, its not their fault of course its just a step up to far for them....
I think the boys are fit enough, there maybe one or two that are not at the level due to the odd knock but thats about it. As a coach Brenden rodgers is top draw ,been at chelsea and was wanted at man city,you dont get to be in those jobs(or offered them) if your not up on all aspects of modern day football ,brenden is well aware of what fitness levels are needed for the prem he may be a bit green on his substitutions (i think he thought he could rest his best and had one eye on Bolton) but to say we are unfit as a team is IMO is wide of the mark. One thing i must add, you talk about lack of fitness but have missed one point , there is a synario in sport when played at a certain level that makes you feel/look unfit and that is being nervous, this is what you are seeing from the team IMO PS dont forget to add the poor substitutions (orlandi coming on certainly made me nervous)
norway.... We only have a handful of players who are just about up to standard, the majority are nowhere near and it would not matter if sir Alex was our manager he would not get those players premiership standard in a month of Sundays, they are not premiership material but its all we have got at the moment. we need to get a few of them out of the club and bring in new players as soon as the window opens.....fitness is a huge problem with us at the moment.....
Norway, We've had long enough to get over our nerves. Remember the Championship? There were just too many games against different teams where we struggled late on - it was happening then and it's still happening. Also let's not forget all those pundits, commentators and ex players who are reaching the same conclusion now that they are taking a closer look at us. I accept your pov but I still believe that our team has fitness/stamina issues. Apart from the obvious examples think back to the Wigan game at the Liberty; it was Wigan calling the shots late on and us battling to keep the point. That sort of thing has been happening too often for me and over too long a period. Anyway, just my own thoughts and I accept that other people may differ.
agree Ivor the last 20 or so minutes we do seem to go to pieces as the players cant last the pace with other established teams....norwich and qpr look fitter than we do...changes cant come quick enough as we should be 7pts further on than where we are...
Maybe it's just a hangover from the international break, but you'd think Joe Allen would be the one struggling, and yet he was fit as a fiddle, I just think that Rodgers needs to go with letting Dyer see out the full 90 minutes I know he covers more ground than most of our other players, but he's one fit winger, that would thrive on seeing the games out, with Britton maybe his back is an issue, but if it is he hid it well because he looked good enough as well to see the game out, anyway how about these boys getting the polish deep freeze treatment like the Wales Ruby team??? That will sort them out, mind it could well retire Monk!................ please log in to view this image
I would be very suprised if brendens team Are not fit .so disagree . Dai when you say they cant Get any fitter what do you mean? A pro player can be fit as the NeXT man its normally the talent and skill levels that seperate the good from the rest.
why is it then that some championship players who move to a premiership club fail......they have the skill or they would not move to a premiership club in the first place...they cant achieve the fitness level and are soon shipped out, there are plenty of examples of players who cannot make the step up....
I beg to differ dai, its because at the highest level their skill is found to be not good enough also some struggle to adjust to the pace /speed of prem football .pace/speed has nothing to do with physical fitness. somebody may be faster than you doesnt mean they are fitter than you though , couple that with the fact they are playing against some of the worlds best players. Teddy sheringham had great skills and speed of thought which made up for his lack of pace, he was one of the fittest players in the prem at 36yrs of age,same with ryan giggs nowadays. 37yrs old and can still do it ,i find it hard to beleive that giggs at 37 has a higher fitness level than Taylor ,Ash,sinclair,allen,britton etc . what sets him apart is the amount of serious natural skill he has. Thats my take on it anyway
it helps when the team are on comparitely the same fitness levels, but it is impossible for certain players to run around like blue arsed flies and others doing little and expecting the same results. takes nous and positioning so u dont have to expend the energy
