First of all, hello everybody. I've followed this site since its inception after 606 shut down but I never bothered to make an account. Second of all I'd like to put my two cents into where we have been going so very wrong this season, I'm sure much of it will have been said before but nevertheless I'd like to have a stab at explaining the reasons behind our misery in my own words: 1. Over-inflated prices for mediocre players I'm a big admirer of Jordan Henderson, but when you consider we signed Xabi Alonso for half the price you wonder how anybody could see Hendo as a good signing. Players like Van der Vaart, Nasri, Tiote, Parker were signed for either much cheaper, or at least only slightly more expensive (Nasri). Hendo will come good in the future, but he should in no way be seen as a starting central midfielder. The two seasons prior to this one showed that we needed an immediate response and with spending a large portion of our budget on players that might come good eventually shows a severe lack of understanding of where our problems have lay. Andy Carroll is a player I really liked to watch at Newcastle, I remember sincerely hoping we would try and snatch him before any other big clubs tried. But at £35 million we found ourselves in the situation that we found ourselves in after signing Hendo a few months after. I understand we needed to pay a premium, we had just publicly received a huge sum for Torres, it was the last day of the transfer market, Newcastle really didn't want to sell. But at the end of the day I would argue that the price tag has really hindered him and we can't expect him to ever live up to being the 8th most expensive signing in world football. I'd go on to talk about Downing and Adam but I think you're starting to see my point about signing distinctly mediocre players when there is so much better valued quality out there. 2. We STILL haven't found a system that works At this stage of the season it seems incredible that I can't actually name a regular team or formation. We all remember Rafa's clinical pressing machine of 4-2-3-1 and yet Kenny just hasn't stamped his influence into the team, his trademark phrase appears to be pass and move which I think we do very tidily, if anything a little too tidily. We seem reluctant to lose the ball to direct passing play and we just end up playing sideways passes ultimately leading to a poor long shot or a terrible cross. Even during matches Kenny chops and changes the formation with every substitution, we very rarely see a like-for-like swap and when our formation changes so suddenly after 70 minutes of play we lose all of our fluency. I'm not even going to begin to try and explain his bizzare substitutions (Downing for Carroll, excuse me what?). 3. Too much respect for some of the old guard, and not enough respect for others Like a lot of fans my age I grew up watching Gerrard and Carragher, for the past 12 years or so I have watched them play every week with their hearts on their sleaves and give everything for the club. But I'm afraid to say that more suitable alternatives need to be found, luckily in Carragher's situation we had found a great pairing in Skrtel and Agger, but in Agger's absence we should have played Coates without a doubt. In Gerrard's case I can't fault Kenny for playing him as we don't have any better alternative, but I do think we should have signed another dynamic midfielder to compete with him (or maybe we shouldn't have let Meireles go) With Reina I think we have been a little eager to please him in any way we can as he is a real valuable asset. However it just seems ridiculous that Doni's first competitive match of the season came in April. It's a real poor sign of man-management, and I wouldn't have blamed Doni for any mistakes made today as having a few months out as a keeper can make one incredibly rusty, he hadn't even played in any reserve matches! Finally with Kuyt I think he has been far too hasty in trying to phase him out. I remember Benitez doing the same with Danny Murphy. We had a great midfielder who loved the club, who gave his all in each match, and more importantly was still a valued member of the squad. I think to lose Kuyt would be far too premature considering he hasn't showed any signs of being past it as far as I'm concerned. --- But despite all this we should give Kenny a chance. Whilst I disagree with a lot of his decisions I think he deserves to be given another season or two in charge. If we were to sack him I wouldn't be overly dismayed if we did turn back to Benitez, he knows the club and he can guarantee growth and quality signings when backed with the cash. Anyway there's my opinion, it'll be nice getting to know you all.
I actually think we play pass and move pretty terribly. Been noticing this as the season as progressed and today I sat there yelling at the screen at the massive gaps between the Villa midfield and defence where there was no liverpool player. ****ing move into the attacking space! Unless Suarez does it, it's rare anyone else does and when Suarez does go there, there's no one ahead of him so he either tries to do something himself or goes for an adventurous flick which doesn't come off. We keep the ball well, but it's too lateral or backwards. Only Suarez is intelligent enough (Maxi is, but never played) to drop into the dangerous space. I agree with the rest of your post, welcome to forums btw :>
Welcome to the forum mate, good points you make there. I agree, without the price tags they would have been decent signings, but that much money should never be spent on potential. This summer I do worry what we might (or might not do), now we have a squad (supposedly) we should concentrate on the best possible 11 and hope Lucas come back the player he was before the injury. Like you, I am willing to see Kenny for another year, but wouldn't be too bothered if he went.
Thanks. I still think that we can play some very tidy passing football (at least in the first half of the season). I think Spearing shows great ball retention and Henderson's passing ability is criminally underrated. But I agree in part with what you say about Suarez, I almost think he's a bit TOO good for us at the moment. Nobody appears to be on the same wavelength as him apart from Kuyt and Maxi (when he plays that is).
You need to look at wages when doing your sums. I bet Hendo is on less than Nasri, VDV & Parker. I reckon the contract Tiote signed a couple of years ago is larger than what Hendo is on. Hendo isn't bad, his long passing today was very good
Welcome to the site mate! You some up your points well. Kenny has to go at the end of the season for me. We need a fresh start with fresh thinking and tactics.
I never disagreed with Henderson being a decent signing. But for the money we spent over summer it looks like we had an open chequebook which was plundered on midtable Premierleague players at best. I do like Henderson, but if you think that he would consistently get into the starting lineup of any team in the top 5 or 6 then you would be deluded I'm afraid to say. He is no better than Shelvey, just more expensive and that is the only reason he is consistently starting I think. I like him, but at 20 years old he is nowhere near the finished article yet.
Cheers! And I don't want us to turn into Chelsea, I think Kenny is clearly a capable manager, if a little eccentric with his decisions at times. We really need a couple of seasons of stability, and after all that is what Kenny was brought in to offer. With another manager we would just get a large influx of different players, a large exodus of players and we'd be back to square one of trying to overcome our 'transitional' phase. EDIT: With all that being said, I wouldn't say no to Rafa if he was a realistic alternative the owners were considering.
I think Kenny knows he and Comolli ****ed up with some of the signings, especially Carroll since he keeps putting him on the bench. IMO, you can't really count Doni (back-up) and Coates (future) as theyre not really part of the first team, but out of the other six I think it is fair to say three of them have been successful - Suarez, Enrique and Bellamy. A 50:50 ratio is not bad, in fact if you look at other managers records, that is about average. The problems lies in the cost of the three considered not a success - Carroll, Henderson and Adam, that is a total cost £59m!
You forgot Downing which takes the total cost to 79 million. Considering teams like Everton, Newcastle and Sunderland (who are all above us) have all built teams for less than half that amount it begins to look a little bit like we're on the receiving end of a really bad joke.
Welcome mate! Best thing about you coming in now is it can only get better! I'm finding it tough to keep the faith at the mo, but will. Shows our expectations if we as fans (either side of the argument ) come away disappointed with one possibly two trophies of the three entered. We still want to be the best. Now it's down to the management team to evaluate what they've done at end of season, change what they did wrong & improve what's currently missing; that could be moving on the old guard or admitting they got it wrong with some of the new acquisitions. We can only hope it all clicks. Pretty much like any club should do off season.
I'm as frustrated as everybody with the way that our season has panned-out. However, I refuse to go along with all of this negativity. I'm not going to re-iterate my views on our Summer signings but even when we are not at our best (like today) we still batter sides. Sure things have been hard for our new signings but I believe that the only one who is in any danger is Downing. ALL of the others will be much better next season for the experience that they now have.
Thanks! (Y) I do agree with you in part. After the first half of the season I thought we played some terrific football, but injuries have really cost us and showed how thin our squad actually is. Johnson, Agger and Lucas have been sorely missed and we just haven't had the quality to fill in. I don't agree with anyone who says Kelly is a better right back than Johnson, GJ is a much better defender than he is given credit for and he is a real threat on the right. As for Agger, you only have to see his contribution in the last 15 minutes against Villa to see how much we missed him. Lucas is still LFC's top tackler over the course of the season despite being missed for nearly 5 months? I like Spearing but clearly he is absolutely nowhere near filling Lucas' boots. Hopefully our wafer thin squad will be addressed in summer, getting rid of players like Kuyt and Maxi would be a really bad decision though IMO and it would make me sincerely doubt Kennys judgement.
