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Discussion in 'The Premier League' started by Roy Munson, Sep 9, 2019.
What? I'm thinking Green Inferno type ****
First thing that came into my head
Done the matrix trilogy last few days.
I enjoyed the sequels more this time, been a fair few years since i watched them.
Getting prepped for the 4th.
Might start the Daniel Craig bond marathon too, new one comes out soon, his last one i think?
Nah. The 2nd film tried way too hard to be all philosophical and meta while its action sequences were so ridiculously OTT they lost all the edgy coolness of the 1st film. Then the 3rd film abandoned the philosophical thread entirely b/c the 2nd film had over complicated things so much, so all that was left was a run of the mill sci-fi action flick that would be considered bang average had it been released on its own.
You won't see many trilogies so totally carried by the 1st chapter as the Matrix.
Watching If with Malcolm MacDonald for the first time since 1968
Strange film but draws you in
In 1968 I was 100% one of the rebel firing machine guns from the roof
Now I am not so sure 60% establishment and 40% the rebels
The definition of growing up and understanding how the world actually works I guess
I think it's obvious it was never originally written as a trilogy. The first was enough, it covered everything. Then it became a hit and they tried to extend the story and it all looked like someone pulling teeth. Fcking awful.
Some great scripting in the 1st though. Iconic.
Second had some sick fight scenes to be fair. Sometimes that alone can carry a movie. Neo went beast mode in some of those fights.
You see one you seen them all after a while. What was so tragic is that the makers thought the only way they could improve the fight scenes was by multiplying each character by a gazillion and making it go on for longer and longer and longer
The car/lorry chase scene is the only part of Matrix 2 I'd ever watch. That's alright.
Yeah that scene is class. I liked the Chateau brawl one as well.
Sometimes I don't need some engaging storyline, just **** up a few ****s in style and I'll give it a solid rating.
I do like films like that tbf.
Starship Troopers is my go to film for that.
Just mindnumbing shoot 'em up on a decent scale. And some great lines as well "They sucked his brains out"
The big Smith brawl in the courtyard was just a joke. Even dumb idiot teenage me was discerning enough to understand that when a fight scene uses bowling pins as a sound effect, we're in trouble.
I enjoyed the car chase and also the Neo v Seraph 1v1. Other than that, it was all so OTT and clearly over compensating for the inane pseudo intellectual drivel they forced on us with the Merovingian and the Architect. Good grief.
I hadn't realised the initial plan wasn't to do a trilogy, that's interesting if true
I think the producers also did themselves no favours in filming Reloaded and Revolutions back to back then releasing them in the same year. So often it is good to leave a gap between sequential films; give yourself a chance to reflect and gauge audience reaction, then adapt by adding or deleting scenes from the next instalment accordingly.
For example, much of the pseudo tripe in the 2nd film was geared towards explaining the Neo/Smith duality. But because it was so badly scripted, when the 3rd film suddenly decided it was totally ok for Smith to just leave the matrix and control a guy in the real world, literally no one had a clue what was going on.
To add, the philosophical threads started in the 1st film were some genuinely interesting questions (raised largely through the Morpheus, Neo and Cipher triangle) such as the nuance of freedom as an objective state of existence or as a lived experience. I.e. what is better, Cipher eating that juicy steak knowing he isn't really free, or Neo eating that gloop knowing he is?
Then the 2nd film just went 'to hell with that' and spent 2.5 hours trying to explain how the Matrix actually works. We didn't care how it works. Forget Keymakers and Train Drivers and Merovingians and Architects. Give us hard ass agents with cool shades and we're happy.
Yeh that's what I was referring to with the scripting. Even with the oracle and when Neo questions whether the choice he made with her was predestined (fate) or whether it only became fate after he'd made his choice. My classic one is Smith asking Morpheus (in the interrogation) if he knew what other living being most closely resembles the existence of a virus? Brilliant stuff.
Some related news, the wachowski brothers are now the wachowski sisters.
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I reckon the 4th is neo trapped in his own purpose built matrix after making a deal with the machines to save zion. Like a personal prison designed to keep him in the dark about who he really is.
Its just a guess but i think thatll be the thing in this movie, neo remembering that he is in fact the one again. Basically a revamped version of the 1st
I think the Oracle's character arc (like many others) was spot on in the 1st chapter but then got waaay too complicated and contradictory in the 2nd film.
Her, Smith, Cipher and Morpheus were easily the most intriguing characters. Cipher especially as he was the only renegade against the blind faith of everyone around him. But he got killed off in the 1st one. Then they made Morpheus little more than a sidekick in a trench-coat in the 2nd film in order to clear space for the Neo-Trinity (two essential but pretty bland characters) love story as well as the unexpected arrival of at least 5 new characters, none of whom made sense and none of whom were missed in the 3rd film (I remember the guy in front of me at the cinema shouted 'oh bloody hell not him again' when the Architect strolled out at the end of the 3rd film ).
So i'm not sure it was a scripting issue - many of Smith's lines remained epic in the 2nd and 3rd chapters. I see it as more of a character arc issue whereby they either killed off, demoted or over-tweaked most of the 1st film's strongest characters and what was left and/or filled the void in the 2nd film was a group of confusing, unnecessary characters no-one really cared about.
If they were going to go for a sequel, they should've done away with all the manufactured over-complicated drivel and just kept it about how the humans fight the machines and awaken the masses to take back control of the world. I remember the scene where Morpheus shows Neo the world as it actually is in the first film, all desolate and post-apocalyptic, and remember thinking that would where the story go. It didn't and that was cool because where the story went in the first film was excellent. But for the sequels there was plenty of material in that to take it there including during the exploration of the real world, discovering how AI took over in the first place and the question of technological progress and how much control should be given to it in the modern world. I'm not saying it would've made for a good set of sequels but it would've been more interesting than the drab convoluted claptrap they came up with.
That's what The Matrix was about.
Remember that androgynous looking character called Switch?
They were supposed to be different sexes when in or out of it, but the studio wouldn't have it.
Never knew that. Waa just a bit shocked after watching the trailer i saw rhe wachowski sisters so had to check
I don't think many people got that from the films themselves, to be honest. Not sure how you would.
It's like the lion in The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe literally being Jesus.
You might get the parallels, but...
Nah missed that one too