Slight exaggeration in the title, I know. In many ways fans are the life and soul of any football club, and on a match day when they are in full voice, packed stadium, supporting the team, there are few things better. When the whole crowd gets behind the team they often raise their game and just think of some of the fantastic match day atmospheres we have had at home over the years. But sometimes the fans can be a bad thing for a club. If they don't like what is happening they can get on the teams back, often causing worse not better performances as it is hardly a pleasure to play in front of "support" that does not so much support you as moan and groan at every little error. There are countless examples of when fans have not supported their team or manager (rightly or wrongly) which has almost forced the boards hand in changing things. In many cases this has been at the detriment of the club, costing lots of money, lack of stability and rarely long term success. You do of course hope boards would be strong enough to do what they think is right for the club and not bow down to the pressure, but this is rarely the case and often the fans can make it almost impossible. Fans all want instant success, whatever the cost maybe but clubs must look to the long term for the security of the club, else their would be no team to support anyway. Often fans realise this in the bad times, when they drop through the leagues, however it is quickly forgotten after a short period of success when it is back to the old mindset of expecting instant success. This is not to say that all the things fans demand are wrong, merely to suggest they must be careful what they wish for. Nor is this a dig at any fans in particular, all clubs supports are very similar in that respect.
It's a two-way thing. Fans will support their team to the moon and back if they can sense positivity, belief, fight, desire, never-say-die attitude etc. However, when in recent games none of the above are apparent, yet they're still shelling out substantial amounts to watch woeful, spineless dross, I would suggest they are fully within their rights as paying supporters to be critical. This relates back to Superman's post this morning () as booing and groaning can obviously be counter-productive. But when Hughton and Calderwood have a fairly talented, hardworking bunch playing like they've never met each other before, allowing heads to drop, not pressing or passing the ball...well, WTF do you expect??
If we go behind to Hull tomorrow I am almost certain that there will be "Hughton out" Chants. It's been building after Fulham etc and the performances we have been putting in. The away support has already started the ironic chanting last night at Craven Cottage.
There may well have been a few ironic chants last night, but I genuinely think that a lot of the noise was us just thinking "we're getting battered here, we might as well have a bit of a song and make a racket rather than sink into our seats". That's the impression I got anyway.
I've just had my say on fans on the ' anyone still want him ' thread although I deliberately referred to the modern fan who seems to only want success. In my day kids always supported their local team. Nowadays if Man Utd win the league then all you see on Eaton Park in school holidays are Man Utd shirts - if Chelsea win the league then it becomes Chelsea shirts etc etc. I had been going to Carrow Road for 10 years before we got promotion to what is now the Championship for the first time ever and another 12 years before our first promotion to the Premiership. This was success beyond our wildest dreams and whilst we all thought we would quickly get relegated and it would be years before we ever went up again - we didn't care as at least we were going to be in the promised land and be able to see all the best teams in the land for the first time ever. The modern fan demands instant success and if it doesn't arrive - sack the manager - sack the board - sell our soul to some foreign owner who might buy buy buy in the hope of instant success. They accept that only one team can be Champions but if it is not them - sack sack sack. They accept that relegation exists but not to them .If threatened - sack sack sack. And when this pursuit of instant success fails and the Club goes tits up what do we get? It is only us poor old loyal supporters who suffer? Sorry but you caused the problem in the first place. When 'arry bought the FA Cup for Pompey the fans clamoured for more money to be spent on players to pursue a charge for Europe. 'arry left, Pompey went bust and the old 606 site was full of hand wringing, woe is me, why should the innocent fan suffer comments. They went berserk when I mentioned that I hadn't any of them protest when 'arry was spending fortunes which, the club didn't have, in pursuit of success and glory.
Top stuff 1950 cant argue with that. Fans seem to believe they can change everything when it comes to getting rid of a manager, spending money etc but don' t believe they can possibly be blamed for any of the bad stuff. I guess the customer is always right? Stupid saying that in my experience ha
I have just been updating myself on the ongoing situations at Hull, Cardiff and Southampton. All previously bought by people with more money than sense and all welcomed with open arms by the fans at the time because they would spend money and try and buy success. Further down the road the owner thinks ' I have put in a fortune here and want to get something back ' whether it be selling rights for business purposes, changing the name, wanting more control in playing matters etc etc. The same fans protest and owners decide they have had enough and get out. They will take out what they put in and more beside, leave the Club with that debt, fire sale the rest to no matter who and walk away with a smile on their face. Administration follows with points deductions etc and you end up like Portsmouth and Coventry. Hypothetical at the moment but it has happened before and will happen again. Look at Southampton. Bought by the rich father for £14m and now owned by his daughter who has decided she wants to be more hands on with the result that the person who has masterminded the success leaves, followed by the manager, his back room staff and leaving behind a completely disgruntled playing staff. She quite clearly knew in advance the consequences of her actions and had apparently indicated before that really she wanted to sell the Club. Not worth a lot with the Club in turmoil but what is to stop her selling the best players, including Luke Shaw, sell the rest to another asset stripper and walk away with , say, £200m. Not a bad return on £14m is it. Could it happen? Ask Coventry fans who now have to support a team in Div 1, have a Club which is skint and don't even own a ground to play on. The asset strippers got in first but the Club only got in their hands in the first place by the fans putting pressure on the ' family run ' Club to sell because their heads were turned by promises of money and new players - no mention at the time of selling the old City centre ground for a small fortune ( which the owners pocketed ) or saddling the club with a debt for renting a new stadium which they never owned. Nothing that has been done or will be done is illegal but as it has happened already many times in the past I have no sympathy for fans who walk into again. God bless Delia I say.
Allam wont walk out on Hull. He has loaned Hull £80m and is making good money from interest and management charges. Also, he is putting Hulls losses to reduce the tax on his other business. If Delia changed your name to Norwich canaries would you guys be happy or would you be as pissed off like most of us Hull City AFC fans?
If it made the club a small fortune from the marketing abroad, which was then reinvested in the team, I'd probably get over it.
I think the argument there is whether it would bring that much in. It might make you more marketable, but there has to be some kind of interest in a club of Hull (or our) stature before it makes any difference. I can't see a great market in asia for any team that isn't competing in Europe in one competition or another, and to begin with it'll cost you revenue at home as fans refuse to buy the new, "wrong" shirts. If someone came to me and said a name change to "Norwich Prancing Horses" (ouch) would bring the club another £20m a year and allow us to push forward into Europe, then I'd probably accept it. A name change for no tangible benefit just irritates the local fanbase and that unrest can have a negative effect on the club. Southampton is an interesting one. A lot of players seem very distraught at Cortese's departure, and whether any decide to leave because of it will be interesting to see. My understanding is that Cortese wanted the owners to leave it a couple of years to sell the club, as he believes they haven't peaked yet. The daughter who has assumed ownership has no interest in football, and apparently would rather sell the asset soon whilst the club's at a peak. I guess how to make the most from the club is the next question. Do you sell Shaw, Ward-Prowse, Lallana, Lambert, etc for maybe £100m and sell the club for less, or try and get a higher price for the club with the players still there?
So, you blame the Portsmouth fans for the overspend and subsequent relegations, because they didn't protest at the time? I'm not surprised they told you where to go.
You can understand his point though. Portsmouth fans at the time felt they needed to spend big to maintain success and many did not seem too concerned that if they failed the club would be in huge trouble. Yes, the board should have just said we don't have the money, but they spent what they didn't have and it was downhill from there. I think 1950 is just saying you have to be careful what you wish for as a fan.
My point exactly - he is in it to make money not because he loves your club. What happens when the world economy changes and he can get a better return for his £80m elsewhere? Look at the accounts of Coventry, Portsmouth, Birmingham and a couple of smaller lower league clubs and you will see how easy it is for accountants to transfer assets, debt, loans and new loans, taken out using assets such as the stadium as security, between the club and the owner so that the owner walks away with his original investment plus a profit, the club is then sold cheaply to another asset stripper and the club is left with the debt and the trouble. Did Man Utd supporters realise what was going to happen when they were taken over and the debt they would be saddled with? The owners have already got their investment back - only the club is in debt. When you sell your soul to the devil you never know when he will call in the debt. Delia has turned down several offers for our club maintaining that she will only sell to somebody who is a NCFC supporter first and a businessman second.
I would suggest that it is quicker, easier and more profitable to sell players for £100m and the rest for £x million to an asset stripper than to hang around and try and get the same sort of return from selling a club in turmoil
Thanks for your support and agreement Tipsy. Fans cannot have it all ways. They say that they wield a lot of power - which they do and as the customers have that right - and also maintain that the club should listen to what the fans want. Fans have the power to get managers sacked and get clubs to do things they would rather not do. Fan pressure can lead to less wealthy local businessmen selling the Club to what seems to be a sugar daddy. The original Board at Coventry did not want to sell but did so under pressure from the fans. The Portsmouth Board knew the risks involved and, as Tipsy has said, could and should have said ' no more ' but they were under great pressure from the fans - we have just won the Cup, another striker here, another winger there, more cash for 'arry and we can challenge for Europe. Take the risk and spend spend spend. The same happened years ago at Leeds with the same tearful ending. Suddenly it all goes tits up and all you get from the same fans is ' woe is me, why should us poor innocent fans suffer etc etc ' I'm sorry but to me thats a load of testicles. Yes, the people who must take ultimate responsibilty are the people who made the final decisions but they took those decisions under extreme pressure from the fans so their ' little Miss Innocent ' cries fall on stony ground as far as I am concerned
Reading all of this I just thank my lucky stars that we have an owner that runs our club in the right and proper way!
We don't see you all flashing your money about these days JWM, his wallet's shut up tighter than a virgin's snatch!
I wouldn't know! The big lesson to learn from the Marcus Evans era is to Be careful for what you wish for! Of course when Sheepshanks sold the club to a Multi Millionaire owner we all thought YIPEEE! All our birthdays had come at once and all we had to do was sit back and let the spending rip. What we didnt know is that ME was completely clueless about football and the wider industry and after £30 Million has been wasted we are now back to square bloody one! Ipswich used to be held up as a glowing example of a well run and financially stable club under the Cobbolds but we are now a badly run basket case! Anyhoo onwards and upwards!
