1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic Fair play Hammond

Discussion in 'Bristol City' started by Mind the gap!, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. Mind the gap!

    Mind the gap! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    3,180
    Likes Received:
    252
    Someone who is willing to put himself on the line by voicing against a hard brexit. Don't often agree with the tories but when he says that people didn't vote to be worse off last year
     
    #1
  2. tiger-emyrs-wolf

    tiger-emyrs-wolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,698
    Likes Received:
    144
    Hard and soft brexit are lies there is just brexit . We'll be leaving single market (no limitless migration) custom union (strange trade deals with other countries) leaving the ecj (write our own laws).
     
    #2
  3. Mind the gap!

    Mind the gap! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    3,180
    Likes Received:
    252
    Leaving both the single market and customs union will be disastrous. Airbus have said that they will relocate long term if restrictions are placed with dealing with Europe which will **** up north Bristol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #3
  4. smhbcfc

    smhbcfc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    16,546
    Likes Received:
    10,464
    If they had another vote now .......................................................
     
    #4
    Mind the gap! likes this.
  5. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    9,515
    Likes Received:
    4,519
    The political shifting sands are very interesting.

    I voted 'remain' - because nobody could show me the alternative.

    A Brexit - with the single market AND free movement of people - but with the freedom to make our own trade deals - would be better than 'remain' for me - we would have our cake and eat it.

    Not sure that's what the brexiteers voted for though - actually what DID they think they were voting for?
     
    #5
    Mind the gap! likes this.
  6. Angelicnumber16

    Angelicnumber16 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    12,893
    Likes Received:
    3,030
    As you say, no one was able to give any really compelling of impartial advice as to why we should leave the EU other than the usual mutterings of controlling our borders ourselves and not paying megabucks to Brussels for what appeared to be very little in return other than being told we cant make Cheddar Cheese outside of Somerset or Melton Mowbray Pork Pies outside of Leicestershire. I still think the actual result was a massive shock overall.

    My head said leave. My heart said remain
     
    #6
  7. Red Robin

    Red Robin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    15,242
    Likes Received:
    2,149

    We voted out too take control of our country from Brussels,not to be told what we do,where we put our money.We control our borders.
    Major reasons why we Brexit fans voted out.
     
    #7
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  8. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    9,515
    Likes Received:
    4,519
    Well, if we go for a 'soft' Brexit then you won't get that!
    The free movement of people is a condition of access to the single market!!!!
    .....and I bet they will charge us a hefty ongoing fee for that access too!!
     
    #8
  9. Red Robin

    Red Robin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    15,242
    Likes Received:
    2,149
    Is there a soft or hard brexit,personally think Brexit is out.
     
    #9
  10. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    3,371
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    Who is they?

    The Conservatives and Labour general election vote share was 80% + based upon manifestos democratically recognising the EU referendum and leaving the EU.

    The Liberals fared very badly on their pro EU manifesto. Very badly.
     
    #10

  11. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    9,515
    Likes Received:
    4,519
    What a lot of people forget (including the politicians) is the Brexit vote transcended political habits.
    Some left-wing politicians in particular tried to make it a 'Left vs Right' fight and labelled brexiteers as 'fascists and racists' - which of course they aren't. The term 'Fascist' is used very cheaply by left wing people who have never experienced the REAL fascism of the 1930s and 1940s.
    There were as many Corbyn-voting 'lefties' who voted for Brexit as there were Tories - in fact I would even go so far as to guess that Labour voters comprised the majority of the Brexit vote.
    As for the Lib Dems doing badly; Fallon didn't play the 'Remain' card very well at all. The press were on his back about his religious views and he spent more of his airtime trying to reconcile his Christian faith with Liberal policies. Also, Lib-Dem voters have still not forgiven Clegg for selling out to the Tories the last time around.
     
    #11
  12. Mind the gap!

    Mind the gap! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    3,180
    Likes Received:
    252
    The reason that the lib dems underperformed was largely due to tactical voting. If I lived in a lib dem marginal with tories I would've definitely voted for them but labour had more chance of winning in most constituencies. Sort of annoying in a way because it allows Corbyn to stay for longer. Don't mind Jeremy but his shadow cabinet needs some reshuffling.
     
    #12
  13. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    3,371
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    The reason the Liberal performed poorly again is because they are the Liberals. Their vote share reflects the lack of resonance they have had with the electorate for decades.
     
    #13
    RedorDead likes this.
  14. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    9,515
    Likes Received:
    4,519
    Applied to today I agree. However, it's a recent thing.
    The Lib Dems have occupied the 'middle ground ' of politics for many years - and if you ask, most people would say that is where they want to be.
    They have always been in 3rd place but have been a victim of the 'first past the post' electoral system to a degree. For example, in the 1982 election they polled almost as many votes as Michael Foots Labour, but they a achieved far fewer seats. Coming second in every constituency gets you no MPs but you could have a very healthy share of the vote. Neither the Labour or Tory party would scrap that system which favours them so it's here to stay ( the watered down 'alternative vote' was a pathetic offer to them by Cameron during the coelition government but the people rejected it because it was crap.)

    I believe somewhere like 2m people voted UKIP last time around for example, landing them just 1 mp, whereas the Scottish Nazi party got 50 MPs with a far less proportion of the vote.
    In the early 2000s the Lib Dems put voters off by their policy of ditching the pound and adopting the Euro - that's when they lost my vote for a while.

    There are many many people who 'want' to vote Lib Dem, but see it as a wasted vote, so they plumb for their second choice of Labour or Tory.
    In the marginals, the Labour and Tory parties scare the voters into voting for them by saying 'a vote for the Lib Dems will allow the Labour (or Tories) in through the 'back door'.

    If everyone voted for their genuine choice instead of tactically the Lib Dems may still be 3rd but they would do a lot better.
     
    #14
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
    Mind the gap! likes this.
  15. Mind the gap!

    Mind the gap! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    3,180
    Likes Received:
    252
    Macron in France proves that centralism isn't dead


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #15
  16. johngalleyfan2

    johngalleyfan2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    14,770
    Likes Received:
    943
    Is that via the door at the back, ... with no land on the outside, leading out on to the Thames!

    mACRON... France has been in a mess for the past couple of decades.. this is/was a vote because there was nothing else, just what had gone before.. he had the smallest turn out for decades. The usual other party voters just didn't bother to vote
     
    #16
  17. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    3,371
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    If everyone voted for their genuine choice instead of tactically the Lib Dems could do even worse. Many of their votes are an attempt to keep the Tories out ... And infamously they sold their arses to put the Tories in.

    Under the system the UK has the electorate has rejected them for decades, SDP merger, nu Labour, Brexit ... Rejected.
     
    #17

Share This Page