After seeing Doug Loft’s performance yesterday in the 2nd half and had a think about it, these are my thoughts on Doug Loft. I don’t think he should be utilised as a first choice player in either the defensive midfield or two central midfield roles as I think the other players we have in those positions provide much better options. Yesterday when he was sitting deeper the game seemed to be passing him by when Colchester were attacking. I also feel that when he makes mistakes (which he does fairly often) then it leaves us in a vulnerable position as the ball is lost near our goal. However I think his role in the team could be when Dack is suspended/ injured or maybe even if he gets sold. He clearly has the ability to play defence splitting passes and lovely cross field balls as demonstrated yesterday and also, for example, he played a lovely through ball for Cody’s goal against Walsall. If he played in the CAM role behind the strikers then it would allow him to play these balls time and time again and when he does make mistakes the ball will be higher up the pitch so not as much of a threat. I think Dack makes a fair few mistakes, it’s just his overall contribution to the team means that it doesn’t matter about his mistakes and players who play in the CAM role often make mistakes due to the nature of their play (i.e. trying the extravagant passes). Although he won’t provide the hard work that Dack does, he could provide the quality needed on a game by game basis or until the end of the season if Dack does end up leaving in January. What do you guys think?
As someone who [recently] has criticised Loft for his indiscipline - I feel it only fair to say that he did a decent job yesterday. I would still have Wright ahead of Loft - but the point about Dack's replacement cannot be overlooked. Loft has some of Dack's ability. It might be just enough to see us 'over the line' - as in our 'ugly' win against Colchester. I hope that we can keep Dack - until at least the end of the season. I know that he's had 9 bookings this season - but, and can somebody confirm , I am under the impression that the suspension rules differ from 1 st January - and I believe that the next booking will be the 'first' of the next five ! - so an 'imminent' suspension is not a threat. The same would apply to Jackson who is also on 9 bookings. does anyone with a bigger anorak than me know the definitive answer ?
Think loft did ok but the best player yesterday was Morris. I have never really seen Morris as an automatic choice but he was brilliant yesterday and my MOM. Unfortunately for him he does not have a set position and plays anywhere in defence or midfield but always gives 6 or 7 rating. Dack and Jackson will be suspended 2 games for 10 bookings until e d april
gioblues I got out my Peter Lloyd sized anorak ! According to the FA's official list ( not necessarily fully updated ) - 'only' Dack is one game away from a suspension. According to the rules - if a player gets 5 yellow cards before 31st Dec he/she gets a one match ban. If players get 10 'yellows ' before the 2nd weekend of April they get a 2 match ban ( as can/ will apply to Dack. ) If they then get a further 5 cards they are hung drawn and quartered at an FA disciplinary hearing. So - it is possible to get 14 yellows in a season without a ban ----- 4 before 31 Dec. Then 5 more before the April deadline - by which time they will be on 9 cards - then another 5 cards before the end of the season ( making 14 in all - but within the 15 required before punishment at that stage ). It's all got a bit hot - so I'd better take off the anorak.
Dack is curently on 9, Jackson on 8. The deadline for 5 was the end of November (end of December for premier league)
Some interesting points being made alongside a bit of nonsense. First of all a team is usually something different to the 11 best players and most managers will try to build a midfield with a ball winner, a runner,a creative passer and a thinker (or something similar). With the current Gills set up, priority is given to giving Dack freedom to roam behind the frontmen and if there is one strand of success this year it has to be the performances of Dack even though he looked rather jaded on Monday. When it comes to selecting the rest of the midfield there are credible arguments for all candidates. On Monday we saw Morris doing the ball winning role especially in the air and probably deserving of MoM, Hessy working and running well although perhaps not quite so successfully as in recent weeks and we had half a game from Wright with his usual tidy sweeping. It seems to have dawned on Edinburgh that he may pay a high price next year if he continues to offer match practice to youngsters from big clubs so it looks like Houghton and Oshilaja will only be considered in exceptional circumstances. If so he has made the right decision. So that leaves Doug Loft. Excellent at Shrewsbury, pantomime villain against Burton and in my opinion game changer against Colchester. The skill highlights from Monday (which were few and far between) were all eclipsed by the four defence splitting passes over 40-50 yards by Loft. No more adventurous runs from Colchester wingbacks once they had seen those passes find Gills players so easily. The technical challenge in launching balls at that distance is high and of course it will go wrong much more often than a 12 yard push along the backline from Wright (no criticism intended). Loft's skill level is high and his creative passing is unsurpassed and for me he has to be an automatic choice not least because he can play in any role best evidenced by his stand in performance as centre half earlier in the season against Blackpool I think, no creative passing that day. Sure, Loft deserves castigating for getting sent off against Burton but it is stretching it to suggest Gills lost that day just because of loft. He made the job a lot harder but Burton were in total control of that game from the first minute til the last and we were just waiting for the goals to flow in. So Edinburgh has some interesting decisions to make in particular does he go for broke on promotion or does he give priority to team development now in the hope of having a more experienced squad next year who might be better equipped to survive at a higher level. Much will depend on prioritising home grown talent over loan players and injuries may give him limited options especially up front. The nucleus and the ability to inprove are there. The fullbacks are strong erspecially going forward, centre backs look steady, midfield continues to inprove, but a question mark remains about the strikers. The departure of Dack must be a near certainty, let us hope funds raised can be spent wisely.
Very interesting and good insight of your thoughts bristol407. I would be interested to know your thoughts expanded more though on the last paragraph re team development. Am i wrong in stating that JE has more of an eye for loans than home grown talent, i know i've been here and done this debate before in the MadDogs day, and i was proven right in it being his big undoing. JE has done no wrong so far in my eyes, but i just get the jitters around the development side of things and I really don't want to see a mr nice guy scenario where it becomes another managers undoing.
Well, since you asked.....I don't think JE has done any development for the simple reason that he has not had to. The inheritance from Taylor was fantastic and all that he has had to do is play them. The addition of Jackson was a good one, the acquisition of Wright has been a pure accident but it has worked well and the squad of youngsters assembled by Taylor have improved with experience and physical development. JE was right to dump Hoyte, Linganzi, Martin and Legge and he has adopted the sensible approach of "if it aint broke dont try and fix it" Questions remain up front with Norris and Donnelly showing just flashes of promise. On the other hand JE's use of loanees is more suspect. The individuals look great but they are not players who we can look at and sign (like Ehmer and Garmston) they are people who are occupying space needed to develop home grown talent. JE has made himself look a fool with some of his comments most notably after the Stevenage and Yeovil games but he is still learning the job having been incredibly lucky to find all the hard work has been done by his predecessor. On a more positive note the ftness levels look excellent and JE has chosen a shrewd assistant. This squad will improve for the next three years if it can broadly stick together (I think we all realise Dack will leave). Promotion might be a threat if it comes too soon.
It's a double edged sword: Promotion is wanted by the fans and quite rightly so, however if the management does not prepare for it, it is bound to fail. If promotion is not achieved then our better players will be wooed away. I'm sure that Dack could be held onto provided the right propositions are put to him.....he is under contract after all and he is a key figure within the team. I do wonder at times when people state (here and elsewhere) that the funds gained could be used to bring in other players.....which ones, at what cost, after all a Dack replacement would cost Dack type money....and as has been stated above there is little development ongoing. Personally I believe that the opportunity of promotion comes around so infrequently for teams like ours that it should be pursued and if possible achieved. A game and financial plan must be in place because the last time we were in the Championship the team and the players faded together with what appeared to be a lack of a long term plan or investment.
Not much if anything that I would disagree with in there. As I said previously, a good write up bristol407. If there was a bugbear for me it would be round the usual that you have already highlighted, loanee's and more my thoughts...youth. And I think as most would know on here, I have a simple outlook on that, in that loanee's should never be used as a quick fix in place of youth. Yes, the risk may be greater but the longer term potential is better. Put another way, JE himself has said clearly we are punching above our weight, or words similar, I can't be asked to look for the quote. Therefore, that also means he has greater flexibility. There was a link that alwaysright put up the other day for amusement re the sacking of a Turkish manager after one game, but despite its amusement, if i was chairman and i also said this under MA, that's your squad and that's all you're getting, make the masterpiece from the tools you got, because you aint getting no more - After all JE created in his own words, we are punching above our weight, which also means there was no expectation of promotion this season. So let's pull back those reigns, fill in the gaps I've mentioned, then have a team that can sustain itself in the Championship. One final note on Dack, I get all the money stuff and offers that cannot be refused, but as long has this mentality exists, the only way forward for Gillingham FC will be through its own development squad and we ignore it at our peril. I say all this for a reason and with insight myself to certain situations. Hopefully we can sustain our current league position but the January window is going to open up a whole new can of worms for the 4/5 months ahead, that's when the have's and have not's start to show through on the final run-in. When we lose Dack that is going to leave a greater gap than an earth quake, I just hope any deal has a clause that keeps him with us until end of season, more likely with a Prem club than a Championship one, so I hope the former is the owner of any said deal.
I'm a bit worried about Samuel. His current loan period ends on Saturday. I have not heard / seen anything about an extension -- Anyone ???? I am also aware that if we do extend his loan for another month ( 3rd loan in one season ) - it will be the last time we can do so with him this season. Norris looked as if he was 'hungry' when he came on against Colchester ( and he was keen to take the penalty at Swindon ) - but he'll need to get match fit - and we will definitely struggle if we don't keep Samuel for another loan period - and it might give us a bit of time to look for Samuel's replacement before the end of January.
Regarding the development of young players. The players on loan at the club currently are Oshilaja, Samuel and Houghton. I don't reckon we will sign Samuel as he was meant to be sniffing for a first team place at Reading but only got hampered by injury. A loan until the end of the season would be the best we could get. Again I think Oshilaja is on loan here as a gap fill (a very good one it must be said) but I think he definitely has a career at Cardiff (although if they don't want him - we'll quite happily have him!). Again the best we could get is a loan until the end of the season I feel. Houghton seems to not be happy and is off back to Chelsea. Although I think young players deserve a chance, to be fair the squad in general is a fairly young one and one that I reckon in the future could be a brilliant team. The peak of most players is around 27-28, some will be before and after but that is usually a good average with keepers a little after. The 5 permanent defenders are: Garmston - 21 Dickenson - 22 Egan - 23 Ehmer - 23 Jackson - 25 All of them are still before the best part of their career with most of them at least 4 years earlier. The midfield ages: Wright - 26 A.Morris - 26 Loft - 29 Osadebe - 19 Hessenthaler - 21 Dack - 22 Although there are a few 'older' players in this group, the ages work quite well especially looking into the future. When Morris and Wright get to their prime in a year of two, the likes of Osadebe, Hess and Dack if we can keep him will be starting to get much more experienced and when Morris and Wright get into decline they will be hitting their peak. We do need to make sure that we have the next batch in though, so those who are around 16-18 now. Loft is the only one who goes against the 'trend' a little and that is why I have said previously (although perhaps not on here) that I would like to see us sign a similar player to Loft in January or the Summer but one who is 24 or 25. Up front the ages are: Norris - 22 Donnelly - 23 Williamson - 27 McDonald - 29 The attack is a little bit like the midfield but is probably the weakest area of the team. If we went up Williamson definitely wouldn't cut it (although I would like to see him given an opportunity at this level) and Cody is ageing and perhaps not the same player. The other two should have good careers although perhaps this is the area that long term wise needs the most investment. I reckon there are a couple of good players coming through, the main ones being: Tom Hadler - GK Darren Oldaker - Midfield Elliott List - Winger Noel MBO - Striker I have seen Tom Hadler in a couple of games and he is a very big lad. He looks like a good young shot stopper although his handling looks a little suspect but he is only 17 or 18 I think. I saw Oldaker at the Faversham friendly and he stood out from the rest and ran the game for us. List looks promising from what has been said. MBO had scored 15 goals in the youth team a couple of months ago so he looks good.
I think it's very important that we don't lose sight of our youth team and JE should try and do more to incorporate more of our own academy players into the team. Players like Oshilaja (although a very good signing), Houghton, Lennon and Samuel have been signed to the detriment of the current youth team. Callum Davies saw the axe recently, undeserved in my opinion as JE never gave him a chance to show himself. Both Mad Dog and Hess liked him and he always gave 110% in the shirt he's been wearing since he was 7. Mitchell Dickenson, another talent CB has seem to have been forgotten about. He was getting into the match day squad on a regular basis in October and early November, fell down the pecking order because of Lennon & Oshi. Callum Emptage, another talented full back was completely overlooked when Jackson was injured and Aaron Morris was forced to play out of position instead of him. Michael Freiter, a player very similar to the Dack mould, overlooked when Dack was suspended and had taken a knock with Jordan Houghton ahead of him in the choosing regardless of Houghton's recent omission. Aaron Millbank, topped to be a regular by Peter Taylor, hasn't had a sniff of the first team this season and finally onto the most promising academy starlet we have in Greg Cundle. Greg scored an awful lot of goals last season and has looked incredibly promising in the development and Kent Senior Cup games, has currently been shipped out to East Grinstead on loan and never to be heard of again. Although loans do have their uses and we've had a fair amount of successful ones down the years, it stops our own talented youngsters from progressing. I would far much prefer to see our own youngsters given a chance than someone else's. Darren Hare has a very good record for bringing talented youngsters through the youth set up and there's nothing to suggest that the current guys can't be more of those, they just need to be given games to get that chance.
Surely, Osadebe is on loan from Tottenham and if JE had his way Lennon would still be here. There is no problem covering a specific absence such as Samuel for Macdonald with a loan signing nor loaning someone with a view to signing him but otherwise it just delays finding solutions to problems. Teams gaining promotion with loan players always struggle thereafter.
Seems our thoughts are very much on par but as I said when we won the L2 Championship, the glimmer of silverware blinkers supporters, although this time round we appear to be more level headed, as highlighted in the constructive comments in this thread. We have a great opportunity here, let's just go about it the right way and take note of those comments to which i include your own.
brb Just one small point Egan and either Loft/ Morris and Norris are Taylors signings who normally play. So this is nothing to do with Taylor. Forget him. Must sign Egan who is out of contract end of season. I have no problem having loan players in as if they are not quite good enough or experiensed at a higher division club they will get realised or sold on and we would have advantage as he would already played for us. Like Ehmar and Garmston. Most youngsters in prem will be realised without ever making an appraence in the prem. People like Freeman or Ocedebe Ehmar Barchin. The same with our youth players they need to go out on loan then if they have done well given a chance. Only if we our out of form or lots of injuries will they get a chance. Finally wishing you all a Happy New Year lets hope we continue a great season.
