Morning all, I'm asking quite a provocative question but looking at our form towards the end of last season without Gerrard where we played great football and scored loads of goals, along with our good performances during the first half of the season where we have played good football but lack of goals. Now we don't seem to dominate games or create as many chances as we normally do. Is this down to Gerrard coming straight back into the team and disrupting the balance? Some will point to his cameo against Newcastle where he won us the game but that is probably his only noticeable performance in the past couple of years. Of course, we are missing Lucas and Suarez which only makes the side weaker therefore makes his job harder. Would like to hear your thoughts!
Gerrard is currently having to cover DM because Lucas and Spearing have been out and we can't rely on Adam to it, therefore he will not shine through as expected. Is Spearing back soon? I expect a great performance from him when we have someone to sit back and he can roam about making defenders unsure of who to mark.
The problem with Gerrard is he can be **** for the whole game then pop up with a winner which always tends to paper over a poor performance. One of the greatest criticism I have always had of Gerrard is lack of tactical discipline. He never knows when not to play it short or play it long. It is good sometimes to play the simple pass and this is the main reason England as a whole suffers. There is no patience in the build up play. Its always full bloodied attack. Problem with such an approach is you tend to get tired and cant help out in terms of defensive duties. It isn't a surprise that since Lucas got injured, we are looking kind of porous. Players are running at us at will and this is resulting us conceding goals. I remember the Merseyside derby game when Gerrard was substituted, Rafa's reason was he was playing with his heart and not his mind. Lucas came on and the game changed in Liverpool's favor with chances coming in the end we won the game. Gerrard is a world class attacking midfielder but an okay Central Midfield. In a midfield of 3 where defensive responsibilities are few he looks very good. Some of his best seasons came when Sissoko/Alonso or Alonso/Masch were in midfield. The problem with Gerrard is not that he destabilizes the team but that managers Keep trusting him in a 4-4-2 hence we look weaker. The fact that he is getting older he needs to start managing how he plays in terms no running around too much and try and keep it simple.
no... simply put he has no stamina so he was leggy v utd. he's the only one showing any quality for us! If anyone thinks carrgher didn't ruin our game, or adam is not as indisiplined as others are calling gerrard or that none of our wingers will hold their shape at all.... nah for me the only good thing about the last period is gerrards return. we were MUCK without him and lucas too, at least gerrard is back playing. BTW we've not played 4-4-2 cos we've only one forward on the pitch the past while (kuyt or carroll)
No: only ever a bonus for our team. Only thing I see occasionally is others around him switch off or step back thinking he'll sort it every time. That's not his fault that's theirs. No Lucas has caused more of an imbalance IMO. Can not wait to see the trick of keeping Gerrard in a deep position with Lucas beside him & Henderson in front. The Opposition CBs will have a nightmare picking up his runs. We saw a glimmer of this even with Spearing in the role!
Gerrard does whatever the manager asks. If he doesn't look like he's being 'disciplined' then that's because the manager asked him to roam. If you don't like it, then have a word with the 4 Liverpool managers and even more England managers who've never had a problem with it.
There is no doubt Gerrard won us numerous matches over the years. I am questioning his impact at this present moment. I would like to see our win % with and without him and I'm pretty sure they are even which would suggest that he's not as important to us as we may think. The reason why I asked the question was because I have not seen a great performance for a long while (apart from against Newcastle). Not only this, he seems more wasteful now. And after his performance against Newcastle where he crossed beautifully to Carroll which created furore amongst fans that he can get the best out of Andy Carroll, we have yet to see anything similar since.
This debate is about questioning a player's quality, so can be **** statistics? His quality on the pitch is incredible, not only does he lead the team but he is the centre of the team, the pillar. If played in a proper formation where he can attack with a player behind him to cover the defence then it incredibly stabilizes our team. If at this point in time, we had Lucas and Gerrard fit, I'd go as far as to say that I don't see us coming out this season without silverware and/or 4th place. Ridiculous to suggest Stevie G isn't as good as a player, his quality is in his technique, his energy (Which I admit, will decrease in the future) is just a bonus.
Fair point. I'm not doubting his ability - IMO he is the most complete midfielder I have ever seen and we used to see this on a weekly basis. However, his performances have diminished over the past couple of years with age and injuries playing their part. I can use last nights result as further evidence considering we won 3-0 last night without Stevie G. Did anyone see the game last night? Did we play better without him albeit against weaker opposition (even though these are the teams that we struggle against e.g. Bolton)?
It's nothing to do with whether he was in the team. It's the fact we had a holding midfielder (Spearing) back in the ranks. IMO our starting midfield should have Gerrard and Spearing as starters.
100% Gerrard & Spearing in the centre and we will look very dangerous (especially with Suarez on his way back to the team!).
Well I still stick to my point. It all depends where Gerrard plays. At Central Midfield good but not World Class. At Attacking Midfield,Second Striker and Right Midfield he is world class. I have not said he is not the great player we all know he is its that I believe am supported historical evidence, Let me list my arguments for this claim CL Final May 2005 Totally played off the park as Benitez went with Alonso and Gerrard in a very attacking formation. The introduction of Didi Hamman in the 2nd half stabilized the midfield and Gerrard was allowed the free role to influence the game. FA Cup Final 2006 A midfield of Alonso/ Sissoko then Hamman/Sissoko allowed Gerrard the free role to influence the game yet again Ther was a period between 06-08 season where Gerrard played on the right and he scored pretty much from the right wing. In the 2008-2009 season it was Alonso Masch who did majority of the CM work hence allowing Gerrard influence matches. Madrid,Manchester United to name a few. In a role where he is required to do lots of chasing back and defensive duties he is not able to influence the game as his strengths are the burst of speed and arriving late in the box. As he gets older he will not have the legs as well as the numerous injuries. Where he plays is important therefore in a 2 man midfield where Adam is the other half it may seem that the balance of the team is not there. I believe in the presence of Spearing/Lucas will enable Gerrard do what he does best.
Disagree He played on the right in defence, but through the middle in attack. He was rarely out on the right in their half. In reality he was only on the right in the sky graphic and when helping out our fullback to defend. I consider this largely a myth to be honest.
Th reason we will take time to progress is because we keep expecting gerrad to produce when he's clearly not the player he used to be and shoulnt automatically start games. I agree with the OP. I love stevie G but we need a new identity in the middle.
Do you also feel that having a player like Gerrard in the team can be a hindrance? The reason I say this is because he is such a massive player for this club, his teammates will always look to pass it to him, even if there is a better pass onto someone else. Perhaps they are intimidated by him as well and that can cause fear in their play? Another point is without having a talisman like him in the team, it forces others to step up to the plate, rather than just relying on him.
Horses for courses. I don't think a one size fits all approach can be taken. To start with, some are coming at this from an odd angle - the OP said that the team scored freely without Gerrard. However, looking at the results, we really didn't do all that well. 14 defeats over the season - 8 with Steven in the team, 6 without (57% of losses with Steven in). Gerrard was available in 21 of the 38 games (55% availability). Not much effect on the team there. Breaking it down to home and away games, Steven appeared in 56% of home games and 61% of away games, playing all 90 minutes in all but one occasion. ...............................Home.........................Away ................................For....Against.............For...........Against With SG.............56%....17.....10...........61%....7...........17 Predicted from overall ..................21.....8......................13..........18 performance .......................44%............................39% Without SG....................20.....4......................15..........13 It looks pretty conclusive that Steven's inclusion worsened the figures in terms of goals scored both home(17 vs predicted 21) and away(7 vs 13), as well as conceding more at home (10 vs predicted 8). However, a significant factor is that Steven played more games under Woy(16) than under Kenny(5). I think we are agreed that the manager proved to be a far more significant influence on the balance of the team...
I think we won 4 out of 5 with Gerrard in the side under Kenny after Roy left. Then he got injured. Can't recall exactly, going from memory
