We hear a lot being said about how we cannot expect to compete with the "elite" teams. Empire rise and fall, and I can see Man United falling into post-SAF mallaise. I don't think United can compete with the current crop of top Euro sides (Barca, RM, Juventus, Munich), and in recent years they have looked more like a grinding machine than smooth performing engine. It is their and SAF's winning mentality that has prevailed, but cometh the changing of the guard all that will change. Chelsea - spendig big and crazy, but appear to be in decline for the last 3 seasons. Proof that money is not the answer. Sure they have won big, but largely on the back of the core group of key players from the last 10 years. They seem like us around 7-8 years ago. City - who knows, you get the feeling that it is a powder keg of egos and petulance that could anytime derail them. Spurs - they have a long-term vision and have been steadily moving forward. Liverpool - seraching, still searching for a return to the days of glory. Arsenal - despite my my generally pessimistic tone on this board, one thing I know is that things do change, and that we are a little stready year on year improvement and we will be singing a different tune in 3 years.
Sorry my friend, we are not on a year on year improvement. from 2010-2012, our points tally has been consistent from the 68-75 mark, and it looks set to continue this season.
And in terms of point tally? Was there a huge difference? No And in terms of finishing behind the top teams, the champions, was it close, or was there an improvement and closing of the gap? No In 2011 we finished 12 points behind the leaders in 2012 we finished 19 points behind the leaders So tell me, where's the improvement in that? My original point remains, none-refuted. , we consistently end with 68-75 points from 2009-2012, in fact only in 2010 did we end with 75, the rest was 68-72, so never any real significant progress. There has also never been any real progress in closing the gap with champs.
And that's Spurs logic, so one season 4, one season 3, and that's big progress? Progress is something you do CONSISTENTLY, we have a trend of doing 3rd and 4th, that's not really progress, we ended 3rd in 2008, 4th in 2009, 3rd in 2010, 4th in 2011, and 3rd in 2012, lol, that's no progress, that shows what I'm saying, we're making no progress but continue in a similar standard.
If you want to show me progress, let's start consistently ending 2nd place, that shows progress as we've moved beyond 3rd and 4th, and somewhat closed the gap on the big teams.
Depends how you define 'glory' mate, Champions League glory and FA Cup(and League Cup)glory has occured for us since Arsenal's last Premier League title or FA Cup glory, so by definition your club are 'still searching for a return to the days of glory'.
Arsenal are struggling to attain a top 4 place, you're as near to us as you are to 4th(5 points), i'd have to say at this moment in time Arsenal are a little less crap than us but more crap than the top 4. That might change if you go on a winning run but that doesn't look like happening this season.
When did I hear that? Last season. Thing is Arsenal are better than this. Liverpool ATM are at their level.
That was with a vastly different side, with a different manager. In many ways, it was a different era.
I'm not arguing that point Kyle, i'm saying that if we're searching for a return to the glory days aren't Arsenal also? There's no glory in finishing anything other than 1st in the Prem or the CL and Arsenal are in the same boat as us on those scores at the moment although the Gunners are consistantly better than us in the Prem.
There's no glory in finishing anything other than 1st, but that doesn't mean you lay down and become sh!t and say ah yeah **** it let's end up getting 8th. Not coming 1st, but getting a top 4 spot, is better than not getting 1st, and coming 7th or 8th. But at the same time, personally speaking, I want to aim higher than 4th, I don't view ending 4th place as a massive success, as Kyle does, top 4 should be a formality for our club, not the aim. But even having said that, 4th would still be better than a mid-table spot, but I reiterate, though I say it's BETTER, and I prefer it, I don't say it as in WOW **** YEAH 4TH IS INCREDIBLE WE'RE AMAZING as some other Arsenal supporters do on here, thinking they've just won the world cup with the invisible 4th place trophy.
I think you exaggerate way too much. I've never read anybody on here say that finishing fourth is a 'massive success' or is like winning the 'world cup'. That's why people don't take you seriously mate, because you try and put words into people's mouths that they haven't said. I think most people on here recognise that currently we're not challenging City or Utd and whilst we've all got ambitions to win the league, it's unlikely it's going to happen. That's why most people on here are pragmatic and realise that finishing in the top four is still a decent achievement, not a celebration of 'massive success'. If only you could understand that, then people might start showing you a bit of respect
Wait, so who other than the Mancs and Chelsea is better than us? No-one here is happy to be the 4th best team in the country, but to say we're not top 4 is stupid.