The desire to play Catts and Bridcutt in front of the back four seems to be gathering pace. I don't get it. Hoping someone will explain their vision. We seem sound at the back apart from the panic when it bobbles in the area, it's creativity up top which is my worry, I was just wondering why we should drop another man deeper and scrap a more attacking set up which the squad has been training to since Gus joined us. Personally I have no problem with the system, more the players at Poyet's disposal to make it work, but it could well click beautifully any time now as our creative Argentinian and Italian internationals return to fitness. I think our current system can have these players performing in multiple positions. I mean Giacc, Alvarez and AJ interchanging around Fletcher would be a nightmare for teams to track and deal with. Width coming from fullbacks. Catt's protecting the defence and dropping back to form a back three while attacking, Larsson the usual engine in the middle. Playing two in front of the back 4 just looks like a negative move to accommodate two defensive midfielders to me, Gus has done this up front trying to accommodate Wickham and it just hasn't worked. I just think with the two creative lads coming back, keeping our system, and following Poyet's vision with the best available players is the way to go, not changing a full system and assigning hours of precious training time to install it. What's the consensus with you lads? I'd go with this as soon as the players coming back are ready. Usual system. please log in to view this image Fletcher Giacc---------------------------------------AJ Alverez-----------------Larsson Catts Reveillere-----------------------------------------------------Jones Vergini------------O'Shea Pants
this set up looks as though its not set up to contain but to be offensive ,which i would love to see because we always look as though we put the onus on defence first ,if we are going to get beat lets do it going forward instead of waiting for the inevitable to happen sitting deep.
I suppose the two holding players (doble pivot as the Spanish call their Busquets/Alonso pairing) allows five out and out attackers ahead of them, ie a true midfielder like Seb could be dropped to accommodate a flair player like Alvarez. The real benefit is your full backs can play much higher up the pitch. However, we might not have the full backs to make the most of this. Neither got to the byline on Saturday, again.
would love to see us play with some gusto (get it ) and have a real go at somebody ,as always it depends who available to play and if the manager has got the balls to do it
I agree, and with the two mobile DM's we can protect our very slow central defenders, I also think this system would suit the players we have much better than the current set up, in which so much is expected of Brown and Catts both have struggled to cope recently, a third body in the central channel would help them out a lot in my opinion. Watching how easy it was for Leicester to play straight through the center was worrying at times. Also as stated it is not a purely defensive tactic as it allows the players in front of them greater freedom to attack in numbers hopefully this will give us more men in the box to support our lone striker .
4-1-3-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 2 central defenders, 2 wing backs Catts playing just in front on the back 2 as a pure DM 2 attacking wingers, with Bridcutt in the middle CAM/secondary striker in front of the middle 3 (Alvarez/Giacc in a free role) single striker All players to getplay more attacking roles, leaving 2 CBs and the 2 DMs to defend
Agree, unlikely to see them together until both Jones and Paddy are rocking the wingback positions. There's nowt stopping the current system from working better but we need Giaac and Alvarezgiving us options as I'm not convinced by Gomez' consistent application, and Rodders and Seb should be competing for the b2b position in the 3rd part of the midfield trio.
Against Chelsea I'd play both Bridcutt and Cattermole. They are an amazing side - although Schalke were pretty rubbish last night and I actually think we're a better side than they were last night. I'd happily take a draw now though.
I read this the other day... http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sunderlands-gus-poyet-feared-lee-4671097 After reading it, I thought that Poyet's probably gone and signed that Bridcutt kid as a Cattermole replacement. The way he played in his system at Brighton was probably centred around him, right through the middle. Then he's realised Cattermole offers something on that next level to Bridcutt, which is why the kid has been sat on the bench most of the time Poyet's been at the club. Poyet can't set his team up differently every match to suit who you're playing, he needs to find his 11 and set them up that way to face most teams and where necessary, tweak it for the Chelsea away and City away type fixtures. Playing two DM minded players is counter offensive and invites other teams to pile pressure on you. It's possibly good tactics from the 80th minute to employ, shut up shop style, get tighter and start to protect the lead, but to start a game like that, I couldn't understand it. I think he needs to admit he's signed somebody he didn't need and forget about trying to fit the guy into a system that Lee Cattermole is controlling just fine on his own.
Do we really think playing Catts in front of our slow defense with Lars and Alverez in midfield is the answer. God help us.
No he does not, when we signed Bridcutt, Catts was averaging about half a season at best, since then we have given away Colback, and as JR has so far been well below expectations we need cover as much as we ever did. Bridcutt is a good player to have around, and I am pleased he has recently silenced his critics.
He was many peoples choice for MOTM in his last start. He still has a way to go, but he is not a bad signing, far from it.
With you the whole way there apart from the bold. It's the most important position in Poyet's system, it demands healthy competition. Gus hasn't played them together, hasn't tried to play them together. It's one or the other. Bridcutt has had to deal with the step up but knows Gus' system very well, Catt's is the better player and playing his best football at the moment. Bridcutt is an invaluable member of our squad brought in to give Catts Competition. We do need Bridcutt, otherwise we'd need to sign another DM, Bridcutt knows the deal tactically and shown he's more then capable recently, The ideal outcome any manager would want out of this is for the two lads to continue to get the best out of each other. I would be staggered if Gus Played two DM's. We're now a club being built around a system on all levels, has it's risks and benefits but we won't be deviating.
It's not the positions it's the role in that position which they provide, Larsson playing his usual cm role with his high defensive work rate has been very effective this season, Seb is playing his best football with us at the moment and doesn't deserve to be dropped, and I'm a Seb sceptic. That other slot is crying out for a central attacking creative threat. Alvarez was good enough for Inter to play there, beat our top assists leader last year by quite a margin playing that role. Also having Giacc and AJ who are as versatile as Alvarez means all three of them can each create from left, right and center. Having our three most creative players offering service to Fletcher from various angles, interchanging making themselves difficult to mark, yeah god help us.
Our best performance for many a while was when Bridcutt replaced Cattermole against Everton. We were more mobile and kept the ball moving through midfield, Cattermole does like to look for option passes before making his mind up and by which time the easy is close down. Unfortunately our patchy form will not lend itself to experiment - yet.
I never said he was a bad signing. Don't forget you signed Bridcutt at a time when Colback was there though, he seems an adequate DM and I'd imagine most people would say he's a better player than Bridcutt. I completely agree that it's healthy for him to be brought in as competition, I was just agreeing with you in a roundabout way that you defo shouldn't be going with two DM's.
I think we all agree to some extent, you put a good case as always Bri, but my point is we really dont know what Alvarez will bring to the table yet. It will be exciting when we have these options you mention, it cant come soon enough, lets hope it works. I am a little concerned about rigidly sticking to systems tho' and would prefer managers to adapt to situations rather than be unflexible, but it is only my opinion. Makes a nice change to be talking about football.
Colback is a very good CM, but he's a below average DM mate. Our only conventional CM Seb, is walking all over Colback this season, his stats drawf Colback's. Mags are ****ing off over his passing like it's some kind of revelation when we all told them he could pass. But I've seen Colback play 4 times this season and he performed worse in those four matches than he did back end of last season, his stats show he's bringing them what he brought us in best part which is a neat pass and not a lot else. To think he's taking their set pieces these days and he still struggling for assists in a winning team, he's managed 1 and no goals. Fact is we don't miss Colback because Seb has stepped up.
I just want to see our most creative players supplying our best striker mate. Alvarez will need time but he has got the goods no doubt. Don't think Gus is the type to tinker with a system much, he's more of a tinker with the line up kind of guy, good for bringing kids threw having it set up on every level, but it will prove naive from time to time tactically. Great to be chatting footy mate.
