Match Day Thread Coventry Vs Norwich City

[SuffolkCanary]

Well thats a fact not a view.

What is the trajectory and final team going to look like in your eyes?

Because I'm going by what he's signed, what he's saying, the quality of the football, the goals we've scored and it all matches up.

Topic and Mattsson, watch their highlights full of long balls up in the air, if you like watching that rubbish then thats you perogative.

Interesting Carrabuh…I’ve just watched this 12mins long Topic highlight package and there can only be about 1o long balls in there. The first 7mins goes by without even 1. If anything he looks like a player that shields the defence and then drives forward with the ball.

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Mattssons highlight reel does show a decent amount of long diagonal passes, or balls up in the air as you would call it, some might actually call it playmaking. Isn’t this something that the Snake that’s gone down the road used to do a lot and half the fan base were crying about losing him.

The trajectory I am hoping to see is Manning building a strong defensive base and then developing our play from there.

 

[RiverEndRick]

Interesting Carrabuh…I’ve just watched this 12mins long Topic highlight package and there can only be about 1o long balls in there. The first 7mins goes by without even 1. If anything he looks like a player that shields the defence and then drives forward with the ball.

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Mattssons highlight reel does show a decent amount of long diagonal passes, or balls up in the air as you would call it, some might actually call it playmaking. Isn’t this something that the Snake that’s gone down the road used to do a lot and half the fan base were crying about losing him. The trajectory I am hoping to see is Manning building a strong defensive base and then developing our play from there.

It's true that Núñez often played the diagonal pass across to the left flank where the FB was overlapping to create an overload with the WL player. I'd call that playmaking and it can be an effective means of getting the ball to Sargent up front. I also have the hope that the progressive play out of defence will develop from a stronger defence starting with Wrexham..

 

[Robbie BB]

If possession is the thing to hammer Manning with and Boro are a good side…we might have lost that game but we had 59% possession, more shots, 172 more passes, a greater pass accuracy. All with being down to 10men after 58mins.
If performances matter more than results then this could be called a good game…

Well, it wasn't "a good game" by us, but that doesn't mean performance doesn't matter. What it means, I suggest, is you have to dig below the "headline" performance figures.

 

[1950canary]

Well, it wasn't "a good game" by us, but that doesn't mean performance doesn't matter. What it means, I suggest, is you have to dig below the "headline" performance figures.

I get fed up with saying this but I judge a game on what I see not what any stat tells me. My disapproval of the current regime is that having watched every available minute of our live games on Sky there is not one game where I would not have given up on it and searched for an alternative if it wasn't my team involved.

 

[Robbie BB]

I get fed up with saying this but I judge a game on what I see not what any stat tells me. My disapproval of the current regime is that having watched every available minute of our live games on Sky there is not one game where I would not have given up on it and searched for an alternative if it wasn't my team involved.

Each is entitled to their own, 1950. And as you have repeatedly, and correctly, implied, if carrowcanario's "stats that really matter" really were the stats that really matter, it would be hugely puzzling that Wagner was sacked after getting us into the top six, why we never seriousy considered appointing Tony Pulis our manager, how it comes that there's such a thing as "the Norwich way", and why when Knapper was appointed, his initial commitment was to a certain brand of football.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

I get fed up with saying this but I judge a game on what I see not what any stat tells me. My disapproval of the current regime is that having watched every available minute of our live games on Sky there is not one game where I would not have given up on it and searched for an alternative if it wasn't my team involved.

Sorry not trying to nit pick but which games have you watched? Was it just the Coventry game that you missed? You judged that game on the stats and what people told you in your own words

I can accept that we are not seeing great performances at the moment, but it is those that are writing the manager and the players off after 5 league games that is a little jarring to me. Some seem unwilling to acknowledge that there is a process taking place. We all want to see the team develop (I hope), believe me if we are still playing this way at Christmas I will be firmly in your camp.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

Well, it wasn't "a good game" by us, but that doesn't mean performance doesn't matter. What it means, I suggest, is you have to dig below the "headline" performance figures.

It's just moving the goalposts though Robbie. Fans that aren't happy with things at the moment are claiming we are a squad full of brutes stumbling around and lumping the ball long as they have no technical ability and results don't matter, but when I demonstrate through stats that we actually did hold good possession in these games but didn't get the result then we have to "dig below the headline performance figures" to what I assume you are inferring as the eye test which is completely opinion based. The Coventry game was abysmal in terms of our ability to keep hold of the ball - I completely accept anything said about that, but then we can also acknowledge that the defensive display was good (i'm aware that is not what everyone wants to see but it is part of the game). Hopefully we can progress to a greater balance in the side, most successful teams are based on a strong defence.

Those that aren't happy clearly never will be.

The likes of CC, RER and I, I feel are just being balanced - none of us have claimed that we are performing well but we are at least acknowledging positive signs when we see them - for that we are told we are wearing green and yellow glasses - shouldn't we all by the way!

 

[1950canary]

Sorry not trying to nit pick but which games have you watched? Was it just the Coventry game that you missed? You judged that game on the stats and what people told you in your own words

I can accept that we are not seeing great performances at the moment, but it is those that are writing the manager and the players off after 5 league games that is a little jarring to me. Some seem unwilling to acknowledge that there is a process taking place. We all want to see the team develop (I hope), believe me if we are still playing this way at Christmas I will be firmly in your camp.

I do not keep a record but as far as I am aware I have watched all live games on Sky, including the Cup games unless they coincided with a game at Nice where I have a season ticket. I cannot recall one game this season where I have not thought ' that's 2 hours of my life I won't get back' If I was writing the Manager and the Team off I would stop watching them and I am not but I am not seeing anything to indicate that the ' process' is working. If it does improve I will be the first to put my hand up and say ' sorry Mr Manning - you have proved me wrong ' but I have my doubts that will happen.

 

[RiverEndRick]

I do not keep a record but as far as I am aware I have watched all live games on Sky, including the Cup games unless they coincided with a game at Nice where I have a season ticket. I cannot recall one game this season where I have not thought ' that's 2 hours of my life I won't get back' If I was writing the Manager and the Team off I would stop watching them and I am not but I am not seeing anything to indicate that the ' process' is working. If it does improve I will be the first to put my hand up and say ' sorry Mr Manning - you have proved me wrong ' but I have my doubts that will happen.

That's fair enough. Let's see how it goes against Wrexham.

 

[Robbie BB]

I assume you are inferring as the eye test

No, I'm not referring to the "eye test", Suffolk, I mean digging deeper into the stats "below the headline figures", where by "headline figures" I was referring to the level of stats you quoted. An example would be the possession stats against Millwall, 58.5%:41.5% in our favour. As you said in another post, Millwall's game plan was based on intense pressing, which they did very effectively, snuffing out danger before we got into their third of the pitch. In effect, they were happy to let us have the ball -- in areas away from their goal. Only 23% of the action took place in the Millwall third of the pitch; 36% took place in ours. That puts a different perspective on who "won" the possession contest. And in the case of passes, while Millwall made 140 fewer passes than us, with a lower success rate overall, they made more key passes than we did. Put another way, they may have made fewer passes than us, but they nevertheless created greater danger in doing so (as is further borne out by the much maligned xG stats -- Norwich 1.0 xG, Millwall 1.9 xG).

 

[SuffolkCanary]

I do not keep a record but as far as I am aware I have watched all live games on Sky, including the Cup games unless they coincided with a game at Nice where I have a season ticket. I cannot recall one game this season where I have not thought ' that's 2 hours of my life I won't get back' If I was writing the Manager and the Team off I would stop watching them and I am not but I am not seeing anything to indicate that the ' process' is working. If it does improve I will be the first to put my hand up and say ' sorry Mr Manning - you have proved me wrong ' but I have my doubts that will happen.

Apologies if my message sounded a bit obnoxious, I wasn't trying to be...i'm simply trying to understand your opinion from the games that you have seen. If you have watched just Millwall, Southampton and Coventry games for example then I completely understand where you are coming from!

I'm glad to read that you are not writing off the management and players, hopefully they demonstrate their ability to develop to you soon

 

[SuffolkCanary]

No, I'm not referring to the "eye test", Suffolk, I mean digging deeper into the stats "below the headline figures", where by "headline figures" I was referring to the level of stats you quoted. An example would be the possession stats against Millwall, 58.5%:41.5% in our favour. As you said in another post, Millwall's game plan was based on intense pressing, which they did very effectively, snuffing out danger before we got into their third of the pitch. In effect, they were happy to let us have the ball -- in areas away from their goal. Only 23% of the action took place in the Millwall third of the pitch; 36% took place in ours. That puts a different perspective on who "won" the possession contest. And in the case of passes, while Millwall made 140 fewer passes than us, with a lower success rate overall, they made more key passes than we did. Put another way, they may have made fewer passes than us, but they nevertheless created greater danger in doing so (as is further borne out by the much maligned xG stats -- Norwich 1.0 xG, Millwall 1.9 xG).

I'm sure we can delve through the stats to make them fit any argument to be fair, my original point however was trying to show that Mannings style is not just to hoof the ball forward and that they could hold possession - which the stats show

 

[carrabuh]

Interesting Carrabuh…I’ve just watched this 12mins long Topic highlight package and there can only be about 1o long balls in there. The first 7mins goes by without even 1. If anything he looks like a player that shields the defence and then drives forward with the ball.

You must log in or register to see media

Mattssons highlight reel does show a decent amount of long diagonal passes, or balls up in the air as you would call it, some might actually call it playmaking. Isn’t this something that the Snake that’s gone down the road used to do a lot and half the fan base were crying about losing him.

The trajectory I am hoping to see is Manning building a strong defensive base and then developing our play from there.

Thats because the video is broken into sections looking at certain aspects of his game. There is concise passage of long balls there. It is very much a part of his game and has been in the games he's played. I had a look at whoscored and his is noted as being a long ball player which i assume is automated from his stats.

I'm not actually against the signing of Topic, I think hes fairly good at what he does. However with the addition of Mattsson it now leaves us firmly in the physicality attributes rather than technique and skill or even a mix in the midfield. Passing and possession is in neither Mattsson or Topics area of expertise.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

Thats because the video is broken into sections looking at certain aspects of his game. There is concise passage of long balls there. It is very much a part of his game and has been in the games he's played. I had a look at whoscored and his is noted as being a long ball player which i assume is automated from his stats.

I'm not actually against the signing of Topic, I think hes fairly good at what he does. However with the addition of Mattsson it now leaves us firmly in the physicality attributes rather than technique and skill or even a mix in the midfield. Passing and possession is in neither Mattsson or Topics area of expertise.

It is in Wrights wheelhouse though so not completely devoid. I believe the idea is to push creation further up the field instead of relying on the likes of Topic, Mattsson, Wright and Mclean - they are charged to gain possession and either carry it to or play quickly into the number 10s or winger/wing backs. Chance creation should be from these positions, being typically the more creative type of players - Diallo, Marcondes, Schwartau, Kvistgaarden, Crnac, Forson, Jurasek, Forsyth, Myles and Makama. I think it was clear in pre-season that Forson was a front line option for this role and it is really unfortunate that we have been without him almost instantly.

 

[carrabuh]

It is in Wrights wheelhouse though so not completely devoid. I believe the idea is to push creation further up the field instead of relying on the likes of Topic, Mattsson, Wright and Mclean - they are charged to gain possession and either carry it to or play quickly into the number 10s or winger/wing backs. Chance creation should be from these positions, being typically the more creative type of players - Diallo, Marcondes, Schwartau, Kvistgaarden, Crnac, Forson, Jurasek, Forsyth, Myles and Makama. I think it was clear in pre-season that Forson was a front line option for this role and it is really unfortunate that we have been without him almost instantly.

Well i agree thats possibly the idea but the options available so long are long.

If you look at the goals we have scored

Goalkeeper deflection
free header free kick
Long throw
Long ball over top from own half
long ball from keeper, flick on penalty
Fantastic solo goal
Ball from distance, but still quite a bit to do to score (this goal is how you described it would work)

None of our goals are what I would describe as team goals. There is no interplay, chemistry, all very basic.

 

[Robbie BB]

I believe the idea is to push creation further up the field instead of relying on the likes of Topic, Mattsson, Wright and Mclean ............

We've tried this approach before -- under Dean Smith! I'm reminded of Aston Villa when DS was in charge: ball with CB (in our case Medic); midfield by-passing pass straight into McGinn (Crnac) in the right half space just short of the opposition penalty area; quick turn and run into the area; sharp cross-box pass to Watkins (Sargent); GOAL!

 

[SuffolkCanary]

We've tried this approach before -- under Dean Smith! I'm reminded of Aston Villa when DS was in charge: ball with CB (in our case Medic); midfield by-passing pass straight into McGinn (Crnac) in the right half space just short of the opposition penalty area; quick turn and run into the area; sharp cross-box pass to Watkins (Sargent); GOAL!

Sounds like it works well