Could the Allams have scuppered a referendum?

Discussion in 'Hull City' started by BernsteinTiger, May 23, 2011.

  1. BernsteinTiger

    BernsteinTiger Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys.

    Just seen a comment posted on the Fail site - ordinarily don't pay too much attention to that site, but this one hit home a bit.

    The referendum, rightly or wrongly will be presented as a vote for or against the Allams. Look at the coverage so far, and it's not really being that much about the village, but about the Allam family themselves.

    We've all spoken about how the referendum could be a dodgy one to win, and how shrewd old man Allam is.

    In donating £1m to Hull K.R, it could be suggested that he has bribed the red and white half of the City. Obviously he hasn't. There's no referendum been called. But the mere suggestion could be enough to give the Allams another ace up their sleeve. A referendum could now not produce a fair result either way.

    It's forced it back into the Cabinet's hands. They wouldn't be able to dodge that bullet any more - which seemed to be their main aim.

    The Tories, for example, couldn't give Wales a big wad of extra spending, whilst simultaneously campaigning for a "no" vote, last month, could they?

    What do you reckon?
     
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  2. 7797100

    7797100 Member

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    And Hull University is in which part of the city exactly???
     
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  3. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    North.
     
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  4. BernsteinTiger

    BernsteinTiger Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough - Castle Hill is also in the West, and has received donations.

    That's not my point. I am in favour of the development. I back the Allams 100%. My point was that this could simply be a master stroke in batting the ball back into the quite hostile council's court, when it appeared they were lining up a get out of jail free card.

    None of the investments the Allams have made have come quite as out of the blue as the £1m that Rovers got. That's all I'm meaning.
     
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  5. chantstiger

    chantstiger Member

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    Lets be fair the moneys gifted to the university isnt going to swing as many votes as in that sense as gifting KR a 7 figure sum.

    I think that is an interesting point raised but Im not sure Im willing to subscribe to Allems being so crafty and underhand yet, as this would lead me to believe he is no better than any of the other crocks that have ran the club in the past.
     
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  6. 7797100

    7797100 Member

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    Methinks some folks see conspiracy theories and reds under their beds. Of course the Allams see potential and profit - thats why they are millionaires but at least they are putting something back. No one can doubt that the folks of Hull will benefit though??? This inept council hardly got a good return for our investment in the KC did they?
     
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  7. RicardoHCAFC

    RicardoHCAFC Well-Known Member
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    Is it not in the East Riding.

    Don't think it works as a bribe for the R&W side though, you'd also get the claim that by giving them money it's trading off votes on the B&W half who don't like the one true Hull club being helped so it ends up pretty neutral. It would need something much more substantial in terms of gaining yes votes without losing them in equal measure to scupper the money wasting referendum that they're only holding because they don't want to make a decision that will benefit the city whilst we're under a Tory/Lib Dem government they want to slag to **** and they hope that by making out selling the ground is such an important thing that it needs to go to the public, the public will then vote no because it sounds risky to them even though all it does is free up a load of capital the Council has tied up doing nothing for them.
     
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  8. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    Councils aren't there to make profits, they provide services and represent the will of the people. On that front, for no investment of ours, they gave us a stadium and what amounts to an annual donation. I'd say that's not a bad return to us tax payers and commerce in Hull. Global coverage usually costs far,far more.
     
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  9. BernsteinTiger

    BernsteinTiger Well-Known Member

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    If it was bribery. I'd have a problem with it - trying to buy a referendum would be wrong. Scuppering a referendum which would only ever be called for political convenience, however - I have no problem with at all.

    Brady has been hostile to the move since before the election. It's a controversial scheme - that's fair enough. Brady's first move on his election was to abdicate his responsibility and put it back to the people to make the decision he was elected to do.

    If he wants to reject it. Let him. and let him face the consequences. Same if he accepts it. That's what his office in the guildhall means.

    I would be quite impressed if this is the way the Mr Allam has forced the decision back into his hands.
     
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  10. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    Hasn't Brady talked down the referendum thing anyway, saying it wasn't really an option?
     
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  11. BernsteinTiger

    BernsteinTiger Well-Known Member

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    Would be pleased if true. I've not seen anything from him since just after the election though. Allam certainly seemed to think it was still on the cards in the Mail's article this morning.
     
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  12. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    How would Mr Allam know? He's not really spoken to the Council yet has he?

    I can't remember where it was, but there was certainly something saying the referendum wasn't really an option. What a shame we've only got two showers of **** as local media outlets.
     
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  13. chantstiger

    chantstiger Member

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    I cant see anybody being happy with them spending tens if not hundreds of thousands of public money to have a referendum on something such as this as referendums as a rule have only been infrequently used in this country for much more serious matters.
     
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  14. Nick HCAFC

    Nick HCAFC Active Member

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    The whole idea of a referendum is stupid and ill thought -out, almost like passing the buck, the council should negotiate the sale of the KC straight away and if some people don't like it then tough, that's why they are there, to make decisions like this.
     
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  15. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    It sounds like he only wants the stadium to use as an asset to use as security for lending, which is why I'm not a businessman, because I can't see how there'll be more equity in a football ground with limited uses than there would be in whatever he's selling to raise the cash.

    Could one option be to sell him Walton Street and include in the price a requirement to increase the size of the Stadium and provide an alternative fair ground site? Council get less cash but keep the crown jewels.

    And I'm still not sure they can limit the discussions to just Mr Allam without opening up the opportunity to others.
     
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  16. hu7tiger

    hu7tiger Active Member

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    No one asked us if we wanted the new stadium the then labour council grew a pair and made a decision that changed our club forever.Its now time for this labour council to grow a pair and make a decision.If it went to a referendum god knows what the outcome would be you only have to look at the diffrent forums fans of both codes not even sure to trust Mr Allam. Then go to the hdm comments and read some of the comments on there its scary that some on there will get a say.Just been listening to radio Humberside and they are running a story on how the traders on and around the kc will be out of pocket big time if Mr Allam moves to melton good timing for any council members listening on the way to the meeting.
     
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  17. fozmaster

    fozmaster Active Member

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    This same quote was put up on the BBC 606 a few months back if i remember correctly!

    I have no doubt that the Allam family would like to see a potential profit if they ever came to sell the club on, which i hope wont be for a while.

    The council should be grateful someone wants to buy this white elephant from them albeit at a reduced cost and relieve them off this headache altogether. Get it sold you muppets !!

    UTT
     
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  18. citycityhull

    citycityhull Well-Known Member

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    If the council put this to referendum they need to hang there heads in shame and resign.
    They are employed to make decisions for the benefit of the city, they have a stadium that costs them (and more importantly the people) money, someone wants to pay more then the stadium is worth, redevelop an aging area, bring future investment into the city, create jobs, and provide the council with £40mil for the council to use on regeneration projects. Or aternitively the same person will say "ok, I will take my football club, the biggest draw to the stadium, build my own sports village away from the city centre, might be able to draw one or both rugby teams there too, and leave the council with a rarely used large building".

    If the council spends thousands on a vote rather then bite Allams hand of they need to leave the city, and quickly
     
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  19. RicardoHCAFC

    RicardoHCAFC Well-Known Member
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    The problem is Labour need to go into the next General Election saying "Look how **** the Tories have made things for you with the help of the Lib Dems, you can only vote for us". It's pretty hard to do that if the city has had over £100M invested in it to improve it. Obviously if that investment happens, what the LDs will do next election is try and capitalise on their massive gains in the area last time by telling everyone to look at how much things have improved in Hull despite all the doom mongering by the Labour party in order to just push them over the edge and take a seat or two. Labour need it to not go ahead, but they can't take a decision that's responsible for the local football team upping sticks and leaving town as it would be suicidal for them to upset all the fans and relatives when they lost so much of the vote to the LDs last time.

    I'm not even going to claim they're doing it selfishly, I'm sure Labour believe they are the best people to run the country just as each of the other parties do, they're just going to feel the need to sacrifice parts of the country now to benefit the whole country in the long term.
     
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  20. citycityhull

    citycityhull Well-Known Member

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    Or the other way to look at it Richardo is if Labour do the deal and say "Look how good we Labour MPs are, we regenerated Hull by shrewd finanical management, supporting local inititives and assissting to develop a strong infrastructure, all whilst reducing the local council spending"
     
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