Could he really have continued?

[Spurlock]

if that is Levy's thinking then it would be he that should go - the same as it would be you who should go if you were the Chairman of a football club!!

why is that?

why do you think Levy should take rubbish from his manager?

because all of a sudden you have achieved success you think you have a right to behave like Harry did? yet i bet you was lambasting Hossam Ghaly for throwing his shirt on the floor...yet its ok for Harry to try to hold the club to ransom because he got us top 4? they are both expressions of disrespect to THFC....but nobody wanted to see Ghaly wear the shirt after that again...so basically if Bale did the same you would forgive him because his good at his job? it is the same kind of analogy....(these are not my views on the Ghaly incident by the way,just an example)

im not cut from that cloth im afraid....loyalty is a big thing....and Harry had none...many could see that or he would have appreciated the magnificent squad he had and got on with his job...he had a year to go...should have wanted to knuckle down and do himself justice and tried to show Levy what he can do by managing us to another top 4....then if he was not offered a contract..i would have thought he was badly done...instead he took a diffrent approach.

Harry's gob was embarrasing and undermining Levy and the club...such as Redknapp's pathetic statement quashing rumours about him getting the sack only last week...which really was Harry's lame attempt at making his point again that he wants a renewed contract.

and that is one example where i could give you many...maybe to you the be all and end all is about what goes on the pitch...and i would understand that to a degree since you are a fan of the team.

however as an owner of the club you have to look at many things...just like we say we would not want an owner like Abramovich who fires willy nilly and has no respect for some of the most celebrated managers in the world....i would also like to think you wouldnt want a manager who thinks he can be bigger than your club by bullying the owner....i respect Levy for the things he has done to be able to make some of us cocky enough nowadays to be able to demand top 4.....im sure you agree with this sentiment since Harry himself said that we,the Spurs fans are 'stupid' for demanding top 4 last season just because we got it once and should just be glad.....i have a problem forgetting things like this just because we picked up a few more points.... Levy got us there before...he can do it again.

 

[lennypops]

Harry's man management skills are overrated

Just ask all the players he fell out with at Tottenham, Levy and the "idiot" fans

Don't see any reason to ask "idiot"s about anything.

 

[CockneySpur]

Spurlock

What happened between Harry and Levy is not clear - all anyone can go on is what is in the press, so your many of arguments are based on mostly speculation.

As for loyalty - don't make me laugh!!! There is little loyalty in football these days, and but if there should be it needs to be two-sided!! Was Levy loyal to Martin Jol???? Jol gave us two 5th place finishes - and yet Levy got rid of him. For not the first time, Levy has shown megalomaniac traits.

Levy has not made us top 4 quality - the players and the manager has. Levy has played his part, but he has not done it on his own - but this time he has got it wrong, and he gets a lot wrong. Its his actions that meant that we have missed out on a number of players because he always wants a cut-price deal. Yes, Levy has qualities also - the Modric situation last season springs to mind.

Seems too many are blind to Levy's handling of the club - and while he has made some good decisions, he has also made some howlers.

 

[Spurlock]

Don't see any reason to ask "idiot"s about anything.

this has all been said before......plus i find it ironic that you think Harry was right to say Spurs fans are idiots because they were groaning at the team performances because we were not looking like we were getting 4th so Harry basically said that 'we the Spurs fans should be grateful for even challenging 4th,because we were nowhere before he came'

A) that is bollocks because we have seen much dizzier heights than the ones Harry showed(im not undermining his magnificant achievement with our team..im just stating a fact)

B) Him calling us stupid because he felt that we were over achieving and should be glad just to be challenging..so he knew deep down his own capabilities...yet so many think that we are doomed because Harry has gone...yet you lambast Levy for seeing the same thing that Harry admitted in a round about,typical Harry way.


im trying to make a point for Levy here...not trying to undermine Harry's achievements....but such is Harry's nature that you cant mention him without him looking like a bit of an 'idiot' himself.

 

[Spurlock]

Spurlock

What happened between Harry and Levy is not clear - all anyone can go on is what is in the press, so your many of arguments are based on mostly speculation.

As for loyalty - don't make me laugh!!! There is little loyalty in football these days, and but if there should be it needs to be two-sided!! Was Levy loyal to Martin Jol???? Jol gave us two 5th place finishes - and yet Levy got rid of him. For not the first time, Levy has shown megalomaniac traits.

Levy has not made us top 4 quality - the players and the manager has. Levy has played his part, but he has not done it on his own - but this time he has got it wrong, and he gets a lot wrong. Its his actions that meant that we have missed out on a number of players because he always wants a cut-price deal. Yes, Levy has qualities also - the Modric situation last season springs to mind.

Seems too many are blind to Levy's handling of the club - and while he has made some good decisions, he has also made some howlers.

we will probably go grey arguing this point...so id like us to agree to disagree.

as for loyalty i was reffering to myself and the fact that i will show loyalty to Levy because i think he does things for the club...yes he makes mistakes but who doesnt? yet his focus is the welfare of our club even when he was wrong.

i cant say that for Harry..i can only congratulate him on the few magnificant seasons under him that i enjoyed...but when push came to shove...Harry thought about Harry(as i tried to demonstrate in my previous post)and therefore i think Levy deserves respect.

i didnt say it was all Levy's doings..but we are where we are due to his guidance...and as for his howlers...even they were made because he tried to better us...might not have paid off but nevertheless he tried to move us on...eventually we did move up...and once again by hook or by crook we will get there again.

 

[O.Spurcat]

Harry did not say Spurs fans are 'idiots', he said that fans who call into radio shows like 606 and moan about a poor performance when they haven't even been to the game, are 'idiots'.

He was talking after a particuarly poor home performance and some 'fan' of ours, was on 606 and slaughtered the teams' performance that day. The guy was asked if he had been at WHL that afternoon, and he replied, "No, but I caught the 2nd half on the radio" !!! I think you'll agree that under the circumstances, Harry's comments were accurate.

 

[CockneySpur]

we will probably go grey arguing this point...so id like us to agree to disagree.

as for loyalty i was reffering to myself and the fact that i will show loyalty to Levy because i think he does things for the club...yes he makes mistakes but who doesnt? yet his focus is the welfare of our club even when he was wrong.

i cant say that for Harry..and therefore i think Levy deserves respect.

i didnt say it was all Levy's doings..but we are where we are due to his guidance...and as for his howlers...even they were made because he tried to better us...might not have paid off but nevertheless he tried to move us on...eventually we did move up...and once again by hook or by crook we will get there again.

I am already grey, so that is that idea out of the window - but I hear what you are saying

looks like we differ on many levels - I am a loyal Spurs fan, but I struggle to show loyalty to a megalomaniacal Chairman

 

[Spurf]

That getting rid of Harry would not improve our position - that is all. If the next manager is a flop I think that those who questioned the logic of sacking someone who got us 4th, 5th, 4th would be vindicated. Very limited and simple criteria that I'm going on here.

You seem to be taking a position that is impossible to ever be proven wrong. In philosophy and/of science this sort of statement is called "pseudo science" and is the sort of thing that astrologers, homeopaths, prophets and mediums do - they will never make a statement whereby their theories can be tested to work or not work. It does not get great results.

In real science (and in good debating/arguing) you make a theory, test it, see if it works. You build a plane out of cheese, test it, see it doesn't work. Make one out of metal, test it, see that it works.

I am taking the position that the next manager of Spurs will find it very hard to do as well as the previous three seasons. If he does not get results like 4th, 5th, 4th then my theory will almost definitely be proven right. If he DOES get these results then my theory could well be wrong.

Now I bet you'll say "But even if Harry had stayed we might not have got those sorts of positions". True. Sometimes you have to play the odds. And the best indication of something happening in the future is that it has happened in the past. Since "Spurs finish 4th, 5th, 4th under Harry" has happened in the past that is great evidence for the possibility of it happening in the future. "Spurs improving on recent positions due to [insert name here] becoming manager" has nothing like that weight of evidence. And in the case of some of the names bandied about practically no evidence at all.

lenny to satisfy your criteria my position is this: Harry had to go because he spent too much time with media, often contradicting the chairman (Modric, Bale etc.) Levy I believe, felt the same. I also have a list such as poor squad use, lack of tactical flexibility or knowledge/understanding, having favourites amongst the player and leaving those not on that list to rot. Now Levy may or may not agree with those observations. What is certain is that he agreed with me and other posters in the anti Harry camp and finished with his services.

So far my position on Harry has proved to be the same as The Chairman of Spurs Daniel Levy. I am happy about that because despite making mistakes Levy has always shown, to my satisfaction at least, that he has the interests of Spurs as his priority.

Now you think this is the wrong decision because Spurs have enjoyed 4th 5th & 4th in seasons with Harry in charge. As Spurlock has said it makes little difference if there is conflict of interest between chairman and manager because the future of Spurs would be damaged were this situation to continue.

The first priority for Levy is to cut out the damage (Harry) the next is to find a suitable replacement to continue the forward progress. Now! nobody (including Levy) can guarantee to get this decision right and we will have to wait and see if we are lucky enough to see a smooth transition to a new manager with results improving.

What you are not taking into account is that (as Levy see's it) he had no choice but to sack the manager either through his own opinion or that of Joe Lewis.

As yet we do not know who is to be the next man in or the results he will get and until then none of us in a position to criticise Levy.

So! Your first position: Harry should stay, has been lost.
Your second position: we will probably not do as well without him, is yet to be seen.
Your third position: If the worst happens you will tell me and others with similar views. I told you so. Holds no water because none of us know what will happen next.

Your right I can't lose this argument.

 

[lennypops]

lenny to satisfy your criteria my position is this: Harry had to go because he spent too much time with media, often contradicting the chairman (Modric, Bale etc.) Levy I believe, felt the same. I also have a list such as poor squad use, lack of tactical flexibility or knowledge/understanding, having favourites amongst the player and leaving those not on that list to rot. Now Levy may or may not agree with those observations. What is certain is that he agreed with me and other posters in the anti Harry camp and finished with his services.

So far my position on Harry has proved to be the same as The Chairman of Spurs Daniel Levy. I am happy about that because despite making mistakes Levy has always shown, to my satisfaction at least, that he has the interests of Spurs as his priority.

Now you think this is the wrong decision because Spurs have enjoyed 4th 5th & 4th in seasons with Harry in charge. As Spurlock has said it makes little difference if there is conflict of interest between chairman and manager because the future of Spurs would be damaged were this situation to continue.

The first priority for Levy is to cut out the damage (Harry) the next is to find a suitable replacement to continue the forward progress. Now! nobody (including Levy) can guarantee to get this decision right and we will have to wait and see if we are lucky enough to see a smooth transition to a new manager with results improving.

What you are not taking into account is that (as Levy see's it) he had no choice but to sack the manager either through his own opinion or that of Joe Lewis.

As yet we do not know who is to be the next man in or the results he will get and until then none of us in a position to criticise Levy.

So! Your first position: Harry should stay, has been lost.
Your second position: we will probably not do as well without him, is yet to be seen.
Your third position: If the worst happens you will tell me and others with similar views. I told you so. Holds no water because none of us know what will happen next.

Your right I can't lose this argument.

My point was that someone who says something that can never be proven true or false is basically saying nothing.

 

[lennypops]

Harry did not say Spurs fans are 'idiots', he said that fans who call into radio shows like 606 and moan about a poor performance when they haven't even been to the game, are 'idiots'.

He was talking after a particuarly poor home performance and some 'fan' of ours, was on 606 and slaughtered the teams' performance that day. The guy was asked if he had been at WHL that afternoon, and he replied, "No, but I caught the 2nd half on the radio" !!! I think you'll agree that under the circumstances, Harry's comments were accurate.

Thank you for saying that before I got there. This myth (that Harry called the Spurs fans "idiots") is so tedious, so infantile, so devoid of any use or content whatsoever that, ironically, it has indeed become a sort of idiot-detector.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

I started this thread but gave up answering ages ago. It's become far too deep for me. Keep up the debate,I love it.

 

[Spurf]

My point was that someone who says something that can never be proven true or false is basically saying nothing.

Speculation is not a science lenny it's a guess. You choose to base your argument on speculation as to what will happen, I base mine simply on what has happened. You're right I am not speculating therefore it is not a case of right or wrong. As both you and I have no idea what is going to happen next it is IMO futile to guess what will happen and then claim some kind of victory should you be lucky enough to guess right.

Having said that your speculations are always entertaining and never boring so good on you for that.

 

[CockneySpur]

lenny to satisfy your criteria my position is this: Harry had to go because he spent too much time with media, often contradicting the chairman (Modric, Bale etc.) Levy I believe, felt the same. I also have a list such as poor squad use, lack of tactical flexibility or knowledge/understanding, having favourites amongst the player and leaving those not on that list to rot. Now Levy may or may not agree with those observations. What is certain is that he agreed with me and other posters in the anti Harry camp and finished with his services.

So far my position on Harry has proved to be the same as The Chairman of Spurs Daniel Levy. I am happy about that because despite making mistakes Levy has always shown, to my satisfaction at least, that he has the interests of Spurs as his priority.

Now you think this is the wrong decision because Spurs have enjoyed 4th 5th & 4th in seasons with Harry in charge. As Spurlock has said it makes little difference if there is conflict of interest between chairman and manager because the future of Spurs would be damaged were this situation to continue.

The first priority for Levy is to cut out the damage (Harry) the next is to find a suitable replacement to continue the forward progress. Now! nobody (including Levy) can guarantee to get this decision right and we will have to wait and see if we are lucky enough to see a smooth transition to a new manager with results improving.

What you are not taking into account is that (as Levy see's it) he had no choice but to sack the manager either through his own opinion or that of Joe Lewis.

As yet we do not know who is to be the next man in or the results he will get and until then none of us in a position to criticise Levy.

So! Your first position: Harry should stay, has been lost.
Your second position: we will probably not do as well without him, is yet to be seen.
Your third position: If the worst happens you will tell me and others with similar views. I told you so. Holds no water because none of us know what will happen next.

Your right I can't lose this argument.

and Levy being a megalomaniac won't damage Spurs??

seems to me that you support the chairman more than you support the club that you claim to be a supporter of!

 

[Spurf]

and Levy being a megalomaniac won't damage Spurs??

seems to me that you support the chairman more than you support the club that you claim to be a supporter of!

Right I am supposed to debate with such a starting point as Levy is a megalomaniac? He is not deluded about having power, he has power surely?

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Spending substantial sums on average players is something that everyone does on occasion, Lidls.
Ferguson's done it repeatedly, for example.

Comolli was wrong for the club for reasons other than the quality of his signings.
Even some of his failures at Spurs have been shown to be good players, if not right for the club, like Boateng.
He undermined the manager, brought in players in positions that we didn't need to strengthen and failed to do so in weak areas.

Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho may be outspoken, but they consider every word that comes out of their mouths carefully and don't undermine the club.
Redknapp made far too many mistakes with his media dealings, even if some of them were very entertaining.
His stance on the contract issue was probably one step too far.

 

[Spurf]

The fact is Luke that like it or not Levy knows a lot more than Redknapp does about business management and he has now seen a number of Football Managers close up. He knows that however good the results in the short term in the long term a conflict of interest between the board and their management is a disaster waiting to happen. As PNP has said the managers you mention have always put their clubs first in anything they have said. Redknapp always put himself first.

This is such a fundamental requirement of ANY business it cannot be ignored and to do so would be negligent on Levy's part. We back Levy because he has always backed Spurs, he has an excellent financial record in a very difficult business environment, has a good long term plan, and has admitted and corrected his mistakes. No one can ask for more.