Off Topic Coronavirus

[bobmid]

I have some sympathy with much of that Bob.
However, as I understand it, people are much less likely to catch covid or pass it on if they are fully vaccinated.
Not impossible by any means, but less likely.
Unfortunately, it's statements like the one you made about being just as likely to catch covid from a vaccinated person that spreads disinformation that the gullible/worried believe.

I dont honestly know the statistics for catching covid from a vacinated or unvacinated person, i do know that you can catch from either though. Dont get me wrong, im not an anti vaxer, ive had mine, i just think its totally wrong to persecute those who feel like they dont either need it or want it.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I cant agree with that Steels. The NHS should not discriminate. Where do you draw the line at. People have the right to choose not to inject their body with a vaccine where the long term effects are relatively unknown. Im no anti vaxxer but i certainly dont have anything against someone choosing not to have it. Covid as you have unfortunately found out has some serious effects, others will argue that it was nothing more than a cold for them, some even having no symptoms at all. I dont know if ive had covid, i certainly havent felt unwell if i have. If i had got it and it was no worse than a cold then i wouldnt be arsed about then having a vaccine. You are just as likely to catch covid from someone who is vaccinated. The illusion that a vaccine passport will stop infection will, in my humble opinion only lead people in to a false sense of security. Now im more than welcome to be challenged, proven totally wrong, even made to look like a twat over my thoughts but i dont understand why someone who is vacinated should get preferential treatment over someone who isnt.

The big problem for me is that it's clear that unvaccinated covid cases are much more likely to take up ICU beds. If there are enough beds to go around fine, but if the pandemic ever got so bad that there were not, I would give priority to vaccinated patients

 

[bobmid]

The big problem for me is that it's clear that unvaccinated covid cases are much more likely to take up ICU beds. If there are enough beds to go around fine, but if the pandemic ever got so bad that there were not, I would give priority to vaccinated patients

I totally understand what you are saying but i would give prority to those who are most in need of the bed, regardless of status.

 

[bobmid]

Think im just trying to see it from both sides and certainly not wanting to argue over it as im constantly contradicting my own thoughts on a daily basis!

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I totally understand what you are saying but i would give prority to those who are most in need of the bed, regardless of status.

That is the status quo Bob and, as I say, I would only shift from it in an ICU bed crisis (and obviously, those with valid health reasons not to have the vaccine would be treated in the same way as vaccinated patients)

 

[qprbeth]

I have huge moral issues with this. Huge!

My underlying ethics is ...to those in need it should be given....who needs the bed/ treatment the most should receive it.


But if that is a person who has been vehemently anti-vax????

At this moment I am sticking with my basic ethos...but I feel I could change my mind on this...and I will be hugely disappointed with myself if I do..but it could happen

 

[Frome-Ranger]

Seeing a few folk say they've had Moderna or Pfizer for all 3 jabs now. I thought the booster had to be different or does that only apply if you had Astra-Z first? Why would that be? Have we run out of AZ or is it not as good as they hoped?

 

[Hammersmith reborn]

Seeing a few folk say they've had Moderna or Pfizer for all 3 jabs now. I thought the booster had to be different or does that only apply if you had Astra-Z first? Why would that be? Have we run out of AZ or is it not as good as they hoped?

I was told that the Pfizer booster was best at tackling the new strain, whether that's correct or not I don't know !

 

[rangercol]

I dont honestly know the statistics for catching covid from a vacinated or unvacinated person, i do know that you can catch from either though. Dont get me wrong, im not an anti vaxer, ive had mine, i just think its totally wrong to persecute those who feel like they dont either need it or want it.

But as you say you don t know the statistics, it's spreading misinformation to make the statement you did.
I'm not accusing you of doing it purposely, but my point is that this kind if stuff is all over the internet and many people believe it.

 

[sb_73]

Seeing a few folk say they've had Moderna or Pfizer for all 3 jabs now. I thought the booster had to be different or does that only apply if you had Astra-Z first? Why would that be? Have we run out of AZ or is it not as good as they hoped?

The AZ jab, by normal vaccine standards, is really excellent. But the The Pfizer and Moderna ones are simply sensational. I had the AZ and then Moderna, and I think the mix of two which work in different ways is meant to be good, but all Pfizer and all Moderna would be much preferable to all AZ. We haven’t run out of AZ, but we decided not to use it in under 40s so had to stock up on, and then use within the date stamp, the others. Which are very expensive and harder to store. Hopefully we are giving excess AZ stock away to other countries.

Just getting a booster is the thing everyone needs to do.

 

[Frome-Ranger]

The AZ jab, by normal vaccine standards, is really excellent. But the The Pfizer and Moderna ones are simply sensational. I had the AZ and then Moderna, and I think the mix of two which work in different ways is meant to be good, but all Pfizer and all Moderna would be much preferable to all AZ. We haven’t run out of AZ, but we decided not to use it in under 40s so had to stock up on, and then use within the date stamp, the others. Which are very expensive and harder to store. Hopefully we are giving excess AZ stock away to other countries.

Just getting a booster is the thing everyone needs to do.

Ah that's cool, I had AZ followed by Moderna as well. God I hope we don't soon get stories of millions of shelf life expired vaccines.

 

[SW Ranger]

I cant agree with that Steels. The NHS should not discriminate. Where do you draw the line at. People have the right to choose not to inject their body with a vaccine where the long term effects are relatively unknown. Im no anti vaxxer but i certainly dont have anything against someone choosing not to have it. Covid as you have unfortunately found out has some serious effects, others will argue that it was nothing more than a cold for them, some even having no symptoms at all. I dont know if ive had covid, i certainly havent felt unwell if i have. If i had got it and it was no worse than a cold then i wouldnt be arsed about then having a vaccine. You are just as likely to catch covid from someone who is vaccinated. The illusion that a vaccine passport will stop infection will, in my humble opinion only lead people in to a false sense of security. Now im more than welcome to be challenged, proven totally wrong, even made to look like a twat over my thoughts but i dont understand why someone who is vacinated should get preferential treatment over someone who isnt.

I have some sympathy with much of that Bob.
However, as I understand it, people are much less likely to catch covid or pass it on if they are fully vaccinated.
Not impossible by any means, but less likely.
Unfortunately, it's statements like the one you made about being just as likely to catch covid from a vaccinated person that spreads disinformation that the gullible/worried believe.

I don’t sit on the fence but agree with both camps. The NHS should not discriminate and is for everyone. We cannot have our NHS pick and choose (although some may say it is by a reduction in other services while Covid is the primary concern - we are still treating a wide range of illnesses and emergencies without discrimination of who you are or what you believe in). It may not be considered the best in the world by some but we are much better for what we have and I stand in reverence to it.
That said I do believe that if you don’t have a specific reason to have the vaccinations then you should be taking responsibility for those around you as well as yourself and get it done. As Beth explained, much better than I ever could, there are huge benefits to having the vaccination. Equally, the Covid pass is only a system to manage the safety of those attending mass gatherings not some long-term control of your human rights; it’s about respect, ownership and care for others - and it’s free (just like good manners). Just do it!

 

[Steelmonkey]

Lets lighten up this debate a touch...

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[Steelmonkey]

Covid: Chancellor announces £1bn fund for businesses
Published
3 minutes ago
Share
Related Topics

• Coronavirus pandemic

Media caption,
Watch Rishi Sunak discuss the government's stance on any potential Covid restrictions this Christmas
The chancellor has set out measures to help England's hospitality sector as it struggles with a collapse in bookings sparked by the rise in Covid cases.

Speaking on Tuesday, Rishi Sunak unveiled a £1bn fund including cash grants of up to £6,000 per premises for each eligible firm.

He said the government would also help certain firms with the cost of sick pay for Covid-related absences.

The chancellor also announced an extra £30m to help theatres and museums.

He said the "generous" new support recognised the situation many hospitality and leisure businesses faced in the run-up to Christmas.

 

[bobmid]

But as you say you don t know the statistics, it's spreading misinformation to make the statement you did.
I'm not accusing you of doing it purposely, but my point is that this kind if stuff is all over the internet and many people believe it.

Not really mate, it is a fact that you can catch covid whilst vacinated and also infect others whilst vacinated.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Covid: Chancellor announces £1bn fund for businesses
Published
3 minutes ago
Share
Related Topics

• Coronavirus pandemic

Media caption,
Watch Rishi Sunak discuss the government's stance on any potential Covid restrictions this Christmas
The chancellor has set out measures to help England's hospitality sector as it struggles with a collapse in bookings sparked by the rise in Covid cases.

Speaking on Tuesday, Rishi Sunak unveiled a £1bn fund including cash grants of up to £6,000 per premises for each eligible firm.

He said the government would also help certain firms with the cost of sick pay for Covid-related absences.

The chancellor also announced an extra £30m to help theatres and museums.

He said the "generous" new support recognised the situation many hospitality and leisure businesses faced in the run-up to Christmas.

Hope he had a nice time in California.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Just getting a booster is the thing everyone needs to do.

…until we’re told something different.

 

[rangercol]

Not really mate, it is a fact that you can catch covid whilst vacinated and also infect others whilst vacinated.

Yes, I agreed with that.

You're much, much less likely to do either if you're vaccinated.
You said that people were just as likely to catch covid or pass it on whether they're vaccinated or not.
This, according to pretty much all scientists etc I've heard is incorrect.

My point is that this kind of misinformation is harmful imo.

 

[qprbeth]

Yes, I agreed with that.

You're much, much less likely to do either if you're vaccinated.
You said that people were just as likely to catch covid or pass it on whether they're vaccinated or not.
This, according to pretty much all scientists etc I've heard is incorrect.

My point is that this kind of misinformation is harmful imo.

Just to explain again. If vaccinated your viral lode is smaller and the length of time that the lode is high enough to be infectious will be shorter.

Yes you can infected someone if vaccinated...but usually with less virus (maybe not enough to override their immune system, if they were vaccinated too)...and you will be infectious for a shorter length of time.
( I.e less people get infected)

This will be mitigated further by a mask or by being outside perhaps

 

[sb_73]

I dont honestly know the statistics for catching covid from a vacinated or unvacinated person, i do know that you can catch from either though. Dont get me wrong, im not an anti vaxer, ive had mine, i just think its totally wrong to persecute those who feel like they dont either need it or want it.

There are different types of anti vaxxer I think. Those twats on the streets don’t want the right not to have a vaccine - they have that already - they want to stop everyone else from having one and taking any protective measures against the virus. They can **** right off.

Those who have no medical reason not to be vaccinated but say ‘well, I choose not to, you can do what you want’ are ignorant of how vaccines work on a collective level - providing more protection for the weakest and most vulnerable. As an individual, even an old one like me, the chances of me getting seriously ill, even unvaccinated, are relatively low. But the viral load passed on by the unvaccinated is much higher than that passed on by the vaccinated, so it makes a difference to others. Those declining because ‘it’s not for me’ are therefore either pretty selfish or pretty ignorant and need educating. And the selfishness is misplaced because they are just ensuring that this **** goes on longer.

If people want the ‘right’ not to be vaccinated that’s fine, but with every right comes an obligation - in this case I think it is to take special measures not to interfere with or put others at risk through their choice. And beg forgiveness if they do need NHS help at any stage. Nobody has the right to pretend this ****ing virus doesn’t exist and that they don’t have to change their behaviour because of it.

We live in an era where people are obsessed with their individual ‘rights’. It’s not healthy. The quality of my life depends entirely on other people at every level, making sure we are collectively safe and prospering is much more important, for me, than my individual right to be a twat (although of course I do exercise this particular right fairly constantly….)