it is my opinion that we are roundly and soundly found out and no amount of signings will change that fact there are several issues for me that we need to address. 1. gaps between cbs. we don't have a partnership between our cbs. it doesn't matter which it is that has a guy running at them, they are on their own. this gap must close up. 2. never block a cross never block a crossfield ball. why are fullbacks constantly under the pump? it's a long standing tactic to be narrow and not risk deflecting a cross "cos vvd will deal with it" we are seeing sides pump balls across at the far stick from any and all angles looking for knock backs. city did it about 10 times first half alone. just changing the personnel who are under the pump or failing to block won't work. we need them to cut those balls coming in. 3. don't defend the width of the 6 yard box. there's always space to play against us. always. we either charge the ball or get isolated and simply always have gaps. this is in come ways linked to no 1 and no 4 but it is largely down to attitude that we let sides have chances. 4. midfield all does at the ball. klopp fundamentally is a pile on manager. he wants to win it back. Will 3 new cms mean we pin sides back in or just lead to the same gaps we see now. fundamentally fabinho is not dropping in any more and helping the cbs but he is just not getting back rather than staying back at all. we pile on and leave gaps and rely on 2 at the back. 5. aggressive press. if you do this do it properly. every has to be up and play offside (aka compress the gaps between lines) if the cbs won't come up thenit falls apart. if the forwards won't press (all 3 were a shambles yesterday and have been) the full backs need to fit the wide player as the ball arrives. you only really need 4 players to kill us with a press ffs. we put 6 or 7 players into press and leave massive gaps that are easily found as the 6 or 7 no longer apply pressure. 6. no bodies in box. it doesn't seem to matter when but we have a gakpo who's a big lad who doesn't think to go near the box and a nunez at lw who wants to but can't much. you don't score if you don't get behind teams. run behind. we need full backs or wide players going beyond on overlap and then have actual targets to find in the danger zones 7. tap tap tap. having the ball at the back under no pressure is not football. lower sides love this about us as they are under no real pressure and will allow us do it and try eventually pump the long diagonal and break themselves. it works. the cms don't move, no passes are really on and we never have options. sides get side and we are worse than useless. 8. taking a touch. alisson is infamous for taking a touch. defenders don't want to just lose it up the park. we have thrown massive points away this season doing stupid things that are not necessary and high risk zero reward in our own final third. pump the ****ing thing away and get shape. this attitude of the extra touch also slows down out play and sides just get shape. 9. never running a channel. we refuse to run the forward channels and just put the ball down there to hold it up. we don't see any advantage to winning a throw, foul, corner or whatever and so will tip tap til someone eventually floats on that's useless. run the channel early then there's more chance. honestly this is a whole new attitude required all round. if you replaced all 11 players you are likely to see the same sort of errors again. defensively it's all wrong. attacking wise it can be improved.
We need to get back to Mo having more of the ball. He’s getting fewer and fewer touches. I really don’t know why ljinders thought it would be a good idea to isolate mo on the wing. Having a compact midfield is crucial. The amount of times our centre backs have to move across to cover the full backs, because the Fb try to close down because either Hendo or Elliot are unable to do their jobs ….
Cmon Jimmy. lets have less of the blame the assistant for all the ills. its patently obvious klopp is full in charge of the entire coaching direction and tactics. To make a full court press work there must be pressure from full backs on the half way preventing easy out ball from keeper. The 8s have to close passing lanes in the centre, the front 3 actually have to get close to people. Its that simple. Our issue is nobody actually gets close or rushes players into poor pass any more. Teams have ages to pick their target.
the tactical set up is how ljinders set up at NEC where he failed spectacularly. He was also the one talking about making mo more of a creator, earlier this season. but yes, it’s ultimately Klopp who is giving him more influence on tactics
Didn't he write a book about how to beat his tactics? Any **** like that should be an automatic sacking imo. No matter how much other coaches and managers view that sort of thing with skepticism, they'll still read it. Why give anyone a leg up, let them work it out themselves. Smacks of arrogance to me
reality check. why not blame kornmayer? players are not fit enough. the dietician? players no stamina. the doctor? players constantly getting injured. the analytical teams, same.mistakes time after time? the reality is its not one of them. everything is off. fitness, stamina, tactics, attitude. they are headed for 8th based really on real lack of will to do anything about it. it ain't "just linders" or "linders' book"
Yeah, I don't think saying 'Heavy metal football' and 'Pressing alot' is the same as breaking down a teams tactics and how to beat it in a book is the same thing. Not saying the book is the sole reason, there's alot of reasons and some (like the attitude and desire) are more obvious than others (like rigid tactics that everyone has worked out and potentially coaching?).
Take it you didn't watch that episode? He went into detail of how it works, who goes when and when not to press etc.
That was what like 8 years ago? Yeah I really remember that So it was before he'd proved his tactics with us, when nobody would have really cared what he was talking about too much. How long was his piece, 5-10mins? (if it was MNF, I'd guess they wouldn't have given him much more than that). Its still not like he wrote all his ideas down and then told everyone this was how to beat the teams tactics. And anyway, if you go back to what I originally replied. I pointed out that Ljinders was the one who had written the book, which I said came across as arrogant. And why anyone would want to give away their plans, tactics and secrets whilst still employed at that the club where those things have been successful seems stupid to me. I actually never said it was the only reason nor the main or even a major reason for our **** season, but I don't think it will have helped in anyway.
I really sincerely doubt anyone with a half respectable analytic group needs to read pep linders book to figure out how to follow Dean smith's villa game plan of stand in own half wide and get the ball hoofed in the channel I doubt anyone needs to read that book to figure out how to bypass a press or how to push up just two men on our cbs and we fall apart when in possessions I really really doubt Carlo anchelotti needed that to win the cl, best us up with napoli etc. the guy wrote a book, it's not the reason why the whole lot are miles off the level.
I agree - it’s not just one issue at the club, that’s the worry. But given this thread is about tactics, that lies with specifically with Klopp and ljinders
We do need to change tactics for next season. I doubt we will, and I doubt we will win a trophy as a result. That said, I do think this season is rock bottom and we will get top four again next season (assuming we improve the squad). As for how we should change the squad... Surely that depends on the incoming and outgoing. Hopefully we'll have a busy summer and our best tactics might change depending on who we get. ... Not that we will change tactics.
We don't need to change tactics, we need the personnel to implement it. With the way we play, if one player isn't pulling their weight the entire thing falls flat, we've currently got several not pulling their weight.
but not solely because of that. yes I absolutely agree we have that issue but there's gaps to be found. put game at its best compresses the play to about a 3rd of the pitch and doesn't leave a controlled ball out for the opponent. the double whammy we have is lazy players not closing down the easy passes out and allow very controlled direct ball in to spaces. however if a side can just hit a ball into a channel at all they will isolate a cb in out system, there's always going to be a "fast lad" able to run at a cb. we need to change the system.we are so focused on all piling on that we do it irrespective of if its a good idea right then or not
Trent going wherever the **** he likes (and not giving a **** about getting back) is the problem there.
