1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic Cheating

Discussion in 'Charlton' started by ForestHillBilly, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    14,601
    Likes Received:
    5,953
    Cheating has been in the news recently. Cheating in politics as well as cheating in sport. The general rule seems to be that it's OK if you don't get caught, terrible if you do. It's also much worse if it's the other lot that do it. In fact it's quite fun then. The only time it would really shock me would be if a top golfer was caught cheating.
     
    #1
  2. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    9,589
    As you say FHB, the only rule that matters is don't get caught.

    Smith and the others have been called good people who made a mistake.
    Their actions have been described as an error of judgment, or a moment of madness.

    Deciding you are going to cheat, planning the act and then carrying it out is not a momentary lapse, or a crazy impulse.
    People who don't have a problem with cheating and do it themselves are not 'good people'.
    They are people of bad character. Worse in some ways than common criminals, because they (unlike most low-life scumbags) are blessed with rare talent which has allowed them to rise to a position where they are admired. They are role-models.
    Yet all that admiration, that status and their rare talent is not enough for them. They seek to gain further advantage by cheating.

    Many footballers are no better, but cheating is seen as just part of the game these days.
    Every attempt to con the referee into awarding a penalty is cheating. Oxlade-Chamberlain took a dive only two days ago at Wembley. A calculated deliberate act designed to con the referee and cheat the Italian team.
    Shirt-pulling, tripping a player when he is leading a sudden counter-attack for the opposing side, feigning injury. All of these are deliberate choices to cheat. But these things are accepted. Just part of being street-wise in the modern game. Cleverness to be admired.

    For decades now winning has been more important than playing fairly.
    Occasionally blatant or stupid examples of cheating are exposed, and those foolish enough to get caught are made examples of, to convince the paying & betting public that sport as a whole is essentially honest.
    But even the most notorious cheats (Ben Johnson, Lance Armstrong and the like) are remembered as part of sporting history.

    Nobody remembers an honest loser.
    For somebody to win at any sport, somebody else has to lose.
    But the honour in taking part, in competing even unsuccessfully, has been forgotten.
    Losing is now something shameful and embarrassing.
    Cheating is now seen as a risk worth taking to avoid the stigma of losing.
    Better to cheat and win unfairly, than play honestly and lose.

    That is what is wrong with modern day sport, particularly top level sport broadcast as expensive entertainment.
     
    #2
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
    sensiblegreeny likes this.
  3. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    14,601
    Likes Received:
    5,953
    After Smith and Lehmann crying on telly<wah><wah> we may not hear so much about whinging Poms.
     
    #3
    DickPlumb and lardiman like this.
  4. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    9,589
    Too right.

    And they're only feeling sorry for themselves because they got caught. Humiliated because they were so stupid.

    Their former reputations as great sportsmen are ruined for ever, but that is no reason to feel sorry for them.
    They ruined their own legacies by choice.
    And their reputations as honest men were false anyway - their own actions have proven that.
    'Good people' don't do what they did.
     
    #4
  5. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    14,601
    Likes Received:
    5,953
    Not too different from when Mike Atherton was caught rubbing a pocketful of dirt on the ball.
     
    #5
  6. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    9,589
    Similar.

    Rubbing dirt on the ball, picking at the seam, scratching the surface with fingernails.
    Even repeatedly shining one side of it. All less obvious or dramatic methods of modifying it against the rules/spirit of the game.

    I'm probably too old-fashioned but I think even sledging and trying to hit the batsman with the ball are against the spirit of the game when it comes to Cricket. Even waiting for the umpire's call when you know you are out.

    When I play snooker (only very occasionally and quite badly) with a few old mates, if any of us knows he has played a foul shot he calls it himself.
    Not because we are worried our opponent has seen the foul, but because it's the right thing to do. Because we respect each other and ourselves.

    When you have no respect for your opponent, there is no reason not to try to cheat to beat them.
    And in sport as in life, people who don't respect others have no respect for themselves either, however deeply they might hide that fact.
     
    #6
  7. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    16,642
    Likes Received:
    2,670
    Post 2 above says it all and I couldn't have put it better myself. I have to say that I am just about hanging on with football these days. I enjoy the day out with mates and son with a couple of pints after the game. Take that bit away and the football has far less appeal. I absolutely hate the cheating in any sport but I do not get surprised anymore at any of it when it is brought to light. Cycling has become notorious along with half the Olympic sports that exist. Pundits make excuses for it at every turn. In football the "he was entitled to go down because he felt a touch" one absolutely kills me. But you are right it is everywhere you look and probably has been for quite sometime. Some of it is even blatant and nobody seems to care. I watched a very famous jockey step off a horse at the last flight whilst leading by a good 20 lengths which scuppered an ITV 7 bet. Nobody but nobody questioned it but it could not have been more blatant if he had lit a *** on the way down. The race was worth around £2k and the punter stood to win almost £200k. Hmmmm!!!

    The problem is that society as a whole is beginning to accept it so it isn't going away. I played cricket in my younger days and everyone who even remotely nicked a ball walked without being asked if caught. It was very gentlemanly but it isn't now. They stand their ground and even argue the toss it didn't happen. Kids dive when kicking around in the park. The only answer is to make drugs acceptable and all sports anything goes. That way everyone cheats equally and the playing field becomes flatter once more. I hope I have however departed this planet by then.
     
    #7
    Ken Shabby and ForestHillBilly like this.
  8. ElfsborgAddick

    ElfsborgAddick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    19,370
    Likes Received:
    9,843
    So much for the macho Aussies!:emoticon-0165-muscl
     
    #8
  9. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    14,601
    Likes Received:
    5,953
    Isn't there a film coming out about a round the world yachtsman who got lost, faked his readings, and eventually won the race by cheating. When he was sussed out he killed himself.
     
    #9
  10. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    9,589
    Strange thing that.
    In his defence, I suppose he was in a bad place emotionally when he realised he was 'out' of the race because he had got lost.
    A huge amount of preparation wasted because of something as dumb as a navigational foul-up.
    Under those conditions, he then realised that cheating was a possible option and he decided to cheat rather than be honest and retire from the race.

    I wonder if he would have been able to live with his decision to cheat even if his actions had never come to light.
    Accepting the plaudits and admiration of his peers for 'winning' the race must have felt very hollow to him.
    The extreme action he took upon being exposed as a cheat suggests his conscience had always been troubled by what he had done.

    I'm only guessing of course, I don't know the story.
    Sometimes perhaps, being under severe stress or pressure might explain why somebody decides to cheat.

    In the case of the Australian cricketers however I don't even think they have that excuse.
    Sure, they are under pressure to succeed as all top level sports people are. But they were already successful and respected because of their natural talent and years of hard work and practice.
    Why was it not enough for them to compete honestly against the South African team?
    I cannot understand it at all, apart from this policy I hear they have been following of 'win at all costs'.
    Such a policy is corrupt and dishonourable, the direct opposite of what sport is supposed to be about.
     
    #10

Share This Page