their own average performances. I've heard 3/4 really astounding quotes recently from English club managers regarding the champion's league. First Ferguson talked about "standards" improving. Now he was sitting pretty on top of his group this year but i reckon last year still rankles him. After all he's a born winner, stating this standards thing is a good way to have a go and also somehow gloss over the loss he took himself. Next Mancini comes out with an amazing statement about how people thinking wining the CL after two years were out of their minds... conveniently forgetting that he just had two failures to even get out of a group which is a very different failure to not winning the thing. Finally Wenger comes out with lots of self back patting for getting out of his group for the 13th season running. Why is this amazing? Well i think that these guys want us fans to forget a couple of crucial point about the championâs league groups. 1. There are SEEDINGS designed to make it very easy to get out of your group. 2. Teams in Europe are not mega rich and don't spend the English type of cash and so when they are in 3rd and 4th pot they've got far less resource and far smaller squads. Lets just look at our english seedings. Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal were seeded no1 in their groups. City were seed no 2 in their group (up from 4th seeds last year) By any reckoning fans should say that all 4 would be expected to get out of their groups on seeding alone. now look at the 3rd and 4th seeds Olympiakos Piraeus Ajax Anderlecht Juventus Spartak Moscow Paris Saint-Germain Lille OSC Galatasaray Celtic Borussia Dortmund BATE Borisov Dinamo Zagreb CFR Cluj Málaga CF Montpellier FC Nordsjælland So was qualification an achievement? Being fair to city we can see they got the very worst group possible but also seeing their spend we can still see they've got way more resources than dortmund and ajax. Utd had a nothing group and could have qualified with their eyes closed frankly... so could any of the other 3 teams. standards? hardly Sir alex, hardly, 3 boring teams that never set any pulses racing. Arsenal are lying second on 10 points but had two absolute no hopers in their group in montpellier and olympiakos... again i think most teams would cruise that group so they might be disappointed actually they are not living up to their SEEDING no 1 status yet and can only hope to grab that top slot or risk going out in the next round... achievement mr wenger? Hardly. Chelsea. Basically whatâs happened here is a returning giant of European football was seeded 3 and upset the apple cart. Chelsea should have cruised the group and shaktar should never have gotten points off them. RA rightly sacked di matteo IMO, he never wanted him and for such a powerful man he seems to trap himself in decisions amazingly often. The only club whoâve seen that WINNING is where they want to be is Chelsea and have sacked their manager while the other English clubs seem to want to talk about being in the thing is an achievement. The English league has gotten worse not better verses their European counterparts IMO. Conclusions? Groups stages of European competitions are EASY to qualify out of if you're seeded and being looked after by uefa. Managers attempting to big themselves up on the back of getting out of a group are just trying to justify their own domestic failings. finally if you apply the same logic to LFC who are seeded 1 in their europa tin pot trophy group you can see that we are under performing as well, picking second strings and just managing the competition like its not important means we need to beat a no hoper side like young boys to secure 2nd spot which in itself looks like a failure. One lapse in russia = second spot. crazy defending v udinese to lose at home = knife edge group. We're just as guilty as the others so I hope Rodgers doesn't dig up a statement hat qualification is an achievement in itself... thatâs like praising yourself for beating a league 1 side in the league cup IMO. The days of English clubs dominating Europe has passed and you only need look to the top Spanish sides and then the lesser Spanish sides owning the europa to see whoâs top dogs now.
I actually think its because the PL from top down has become more competitive (within itself). Clubs have set up to be high tempo, high scoring but weakened defensively. Everyone has been sucked into this style to even get at the European spots. If you think back to the Style played by Us, , Chelsea & Arsenal compared to now it was a lot more "European" (pre this gen Barca) very Italian and I don't mean defensive although that was part if it but tactical. All 1-0 wins with the exception of a couple of the United teams that were basically bloody good offensively. We could all set the majority of our squads that way because qualification was almost a forgone conclusion most years in the PL. When Chelsea switched back to that style last year (albeit a very negative version of it) look what happened. You wait and see (if he gets time) what way Rafa sets them up. I think Fergie has given up totally on Europe (he'd never admit it) he knows this current squad & the style it plays can't win the CL without a lot of shocks at the back end of the competition. So he's concentrated on shaping his team to win the PL. Arsenal are just happy to be there as usual and are looking more English in their set up every day. City...well I don't even know where to begin there. .....Mancini is clueless?
So why haven't more clubs emulated Arsenal? Isn't Arsenal who we're supposed to be now? Young squad, pas pass pass, not win anything?
Actually think if you watch Arsenal, particularly with Giroud, they are becoming a more balanced team: they've added the missing direct route as an option to their game. They are more of a danger from set pieces. They just lack the individual quality in position s that they use to have. Again I think its at a detriment to their European campaign but then hey as they would say they're in it and happy to be so. And Sorry what are we suppose to have won by November? So we as holders are out of one comp and ok rule us out of winning the league (which you could have done without the change in manager anyway) so we're still in the other two. And as big a supporter of KD as I was: Pass, pass, pass, hit the post and not win anything wasn't any different was it? That direct ball to Carroll was brilliantly effective just as it is for West Ham....errrr..... Of course you're in the nice comfortable position of sitting on the sideline pretending to know what would have happened aren't you? If BR is successful you'll give credit to KD & Rafa for building him his team. If he fails you'll say "I told you so" In the mean time, when watching us play do you cheer us on? Do you hope for a win. Do you celebrate a goal? You're going to give yourself an ulcer with that bitterness mate: even if you are right. Your life I suppose.
Tbh that's pretty much what he has always done. It's very hard to win the PL and CL at the same time, as every other club in the PL has shown over the past twenty odd years. Winning the PL is about winning as many games as possible, whilst winning the CL is about avoiding defeat as much as possible - that was pretty much what Benitez and Di Matteo did when playing superior teams in their CL winning campaigns. SAF has never set his teams up to do that - Utd always try to win as many and accept the defeats that come along the way. It's the best option for the PL, but not so much for the CL as we showed against Real, Porto, Bayern, Bayer etc when we should have shut up shop and kept it tight when level or just in front but kept attacking and ended up conceding crucial goals. This. Qualifying from the CL group may be relatively straightforward for clubs with lots of money and resources, but so in theory should finishing in the top four or avoiding relegation with an expensive squad. Just cos something looks easy on paper doesn't mean it is actually easy to do, or to do consistently. Arsenal have the longest record of qualifying for the CL and getting out of the group stage, and whilst that is obviously nowhere near as important as winning the thing it does show a level of consistency that Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool have lacked.
Ive been surprised by many of the so caller 'lesser teams' you have in the 3rd & 4th pots. Celtic for example i would have had down as the whipping boys of their group and Juve have been convincing. It comes down to the bigger teams underestimating their opponents and/or being tactically inept(Mancini). Lets not forget ourselves and chelsea both won this Competition without actually doing too well in the league. So id argue if you are setup correctly for cup type games then you should fare well or least get past the group stages of the CL.
Bacon face knows full well that the **** squad he has at the moment will get nowhere near the champs league. They are good enough to roll the rubbish that is in the prem league but they get found out for what they are in Europe.
The typically strong and consistent teams like Man Utd and Arsenal have really poor squads compared to previous years and I cannot see them winning any time soon. Man City have the squad to compete but for a team packed full of stars, they look inexperienced on the big stage. I agree that Chelsea are probably the best English team in Europe but despite their expensive squad and CL win last year, I can't see them beating other European teams. The CL has definitely improved - Germany provides Bayern Munich who are usually very strong but have found the extra level to really compete on the top stage once more (coincides with the rise of the Bundesliga and huge commercial revenues they generate), and also Dortmund who are a breath of fresh air. PSG have been taken over by rich Arabs so there is another expensively assembled team to compete with. Juventus have now regained their position as the number 1 team in Italy and they look very strong (based on their performance against Chelsea). In the past, usually a single country dominate i.e. around 2004 ish - Italy had some great teams like AC Milan, Inter and Juventus. Then Spain came back through Barca mainly but Real Madrid were also very strong, then England started to dominate. This year - it's a mixed bag. Anyone can win it and I don't think there is a clear favourite.
La Liga and Bundesliga have overtaken the Prem in terms of quality, level of competition and tactical and technical awareness/ability. I watch a lot of Bundesliga and iits ****ting all over the prem in every category this season. Some of the players that are being developed in Germany are amazing players and are going to go on to be special. Germany are going to have a top international team for years to come.
Germany have always had good players coming through but now they seem to be reaching an even higher level. I think it also helps that their league is becoming stronger which will help keep the players in the country. The only concern is that they are becoming very profitable which could mean they buy foreign superstars. Bayern spent a lot of money on Martinez and there could be more on the way, at the detriment of the home grown players?
Agreed that managers will say things to mitigate any disappointment from failure to qualify or defeats and some will big up any qualification as a great achievement. It is only human nature. Very few will say: we've qualified but that was expected considering how easy and weak the group was ! I agree that City has massively underachieved in the CL. Not because they didn't qualify but because given their status as premiership champions (the "best" league in the world haha) they were expected to make a better fist of it. The results were simply not good enough. They underperformed (why?) against all their rivals at home. Madrid and Dortmund could and should have thrashed them. So could have Ajax. May be they'll try their best to get into the Europa. May be not if they think it could be a distraction from winning the premiership. Howver if they did that they would have missed on valauble European experience which they need. As for United, I think they do not have the strength to challenge for the CL trophy. Their midfield was weak on Saturday and unless the likes of Kagawa, Cleverley and Anderson come back stronger, I can only see the semifinals at most. And RVP and Rooney must be fit. Chelsea was on paper the strongest English team in the CL. However, I honestly cannot see them progressing. They have underachieved. but it only shows (with no disrespect) how lucky they were to get to the finals and then to win the trophy. In any other circumstances, although you have to admire Chelsea's doggedness and resilience, in footballing terms they were completely outplayed by Barcelona and Bayern. So you could say a very atypical champion. As for Arsenal I cannot see them progressing beyond the semis. They are good but not good enough to challenge the likes of Bayern, Madrid, Barcelona or even United. I can see 2 English semifinalists. and unless they play each other none in the finals.
