Simple question really. Is the way CH wants Norwich to play beyond the quality of players we have? Although it doesn't work out the same way every week, CH seems to want us to play a more disciplined and patient game then in previous years. Im sure many people don't like this style of play (although if well executed I don't think its actually that bad) but it does require players to be mental strong, well organised, disciplined and when in possession pass it around waiting for a good opening. I look at our squad and as a whole team I don't think we have the qualities to play this way. This could easily be construed as a criticism of CH, as arguably he has tried to fit players who are not capable into a certain style. However you could also say that he is starting with scratch trying to set up a style for the club which maybe successful in the future (sure most believe it won't), similar to how Swansea for example spent years instilling their passing style before they were promoted.
Of course it isn't beyond the players. It just isn't the way to play In the premier league when the majority of opposition will see you as three points.
Simple question, but very hard to answer. I always get the feeling with CH that he hasn't quite got the courage of his convictions. What I mean is, he is trying to do some of the things you suggest. But to do that you have to trust the players, and he seems such a micro-manager that he can't do this. For example, if you are right and he is trying to introduce this style, why prefer Johnson to Fox? If you want this patient style, you must trust Fox (or whoever plays this role) to keep the ball and make the right decisions at the right time. I guess I'm saying that I personally don't think the problem is with the squad of players we have. The problem is that CH doesn't have the confidence to do what he wants to do, and so we end up in a kind of a no-man's-land where we aren't quite anything at all. Does that make any kind of sense?
I agree with you as in I think sometimes he has almost contradicted himself in the team he has picked and way he appears to want to play. As much as many may disagree I do believe CH was correct in trying to make us more disciplined and structured although it certainly has not been implemented perfectly as yet.
We aren't doing it on inspiration and spirit, but we aren't doing it on organisation either. We seem to be the worst of both worlds - no fight but no calm discipline either. If Hughton fails - and I personally think his position is becoming almost untenable - it won't be because he is incompetent. He is so close to being a top manager, but sadly I don't think it will ever be with us and, unless he really thinks deeply about what has gone wrong at Carrow Road, maybe never.
I agree with you in the sense we really are not that far from being a decent mid table side and by that I mean comfortably avoiding relegation as sometimes finishing can be a bit misleading.
Great post Tipsy, and IMO spot on. And incidentally, although I think we will still be in the PL next season, relegation would not be incompatible with completing that job. People seem to assume that if we are relegated CH will be sacked. I don't think that is obvious at all.
What has always struck me as weird is that Hughton clearly wants to play a nice passing game from defence, through the midfield and then get the ball to the strikers either from crosses or balls through the middle. Yet he doesn't give a chance to the best passer in our team in Fox and seems incredibly reluctant to use our most creative player, Wes. The reason these players performed well under Lambert is because he believed in them and I think his lack of belief in Fox and Wes to perform has sapped their confidence and now when half our team is injured they still barely get a look in.
I take your point, but as I said previously I think he wants to play that way but is slightly cautious (rightly or wrongly) about being caught a bit light physically in midfield. I like Wes and would be happy to see him played more but he does not retain possession brilliantly and certainly isn't disciplined positionally. Although if the whole team was disciplined to compensate for him, making him central to our creativity then he would be a great asset. RE Fox it is hard to know what has gone on with him and how much this illness effected him (as has been covered previously). Again a player who has done well for has but maybe doesn't have that prem quality, he is quite one dimensional a better version of him would be a great signing though.
Agreed. It very much depends if the club has bought into a long term vision of where and how we play with CH at the helm. To me it always looked like an appointment the board made with a view to the long term, keeping stability to our club which has to be the right way to play things I'm sure all would agree. If CH is the right man to lead it is of course a matter discussed numerous times.
Really agree with this, he seems too keen to appease the fans sometimes to play what he believes is the best way. I think the best we've looked this season was when we played 4-3-3 with the Tettey-Fer-Howson midfield, RvW up top. Whilst a lot of the time that's not been possible due to injuries, rather that stick with the formation and try different players, he appears to have all but abandoned it in favour of 4-4-2. The only real reason I can see for that is that it pairs Hooper and RvW, and looks attacking on paper, therefore satisfying a lot of the fans. I'd much rather see us play the 4-3-3/4-5-1 with the personnel available. Johnson covers Tettey, and we've only been without Howson fairly recently but the formation seems long abandoned. With Howson out, granted it's more difficult as neither Hoolahan or Elmander offer the fluidity in midfield that Howson does (Howson can drop deeper to cover Tettey or Fer going forwards, Hoolahan and Elmander can't), which for me highlights just how key another central midfielder is in January, someone with a creative attacking edge but also with the discipline to sit deeper if needed. From all I've seen of Davy Propper I really think he could be that player, at a reasonable price, but I can just see us going through January signing a CB at most.
It's crucial that we get someone in who can feed Hooper and / or RvW with through balls to run onto. Fer started to be that guy, but he has tended to sit deeper since Tettey's injury, presumably to afford more cover to Johnson. Hoolahan can still do it on occasions - but he only plays on occasions, too. Staying afloat in this league requires extra creativity which we don't seem to be finding with anywhere near enough frequency this season.
You really think Hughton asks for a nice passing game from the defence. I would maybe agree with this for the first two or three games but we do not play that way. Hughtons aim is creating crosses into the box from early positions (inverted wingers), thats not passing it through the midfield because the ball is out wide at the first opportunity. The central midfield will very rarely make the final ball. Another point who on earth is thinking we are a sideways passing team!! (not you I know but some people seriously think this is the case) We'll do it once and the ball just stays out there. It doesn't go back and forth and back again looking for opportunity to go forward.
Who has said that? Whether you agree with how CH sets his team out to play or (obviously) not you have to agree that a club such as ours should be looking long term and trying to set the club up in a certain style for the future. Clearly you would like them to say "ok we will build this club up to be a technical passing side and whoever the manager is we want them to play this way". I agree that would be great, but most importantly they need to pick a way and try and stick with what they believe is right.
Good post and spot on. I'd also add that we are: (1) neither a passing team nor a hoofball team. We do neither well. (2) we sometimes look like we're trying to play on the counter attack, but our counter attacks always seem to fail because we try to keep possession and aren't good enough, rather than just going all out. It's like we're trying to be everything and ending up being nothing. I feel most like Hughton's trying to get us to be similar in style to Bayern Munich, but it just is not clicking.
That's the whole point of getting rid of the Hughton, his vision is not shared by the majority of the support, and rightly so. Hands up who wants our club to reflect Chris Hughtons vision. There are a few on here (or other threads) mentioning the sideways pass as if it is the root of all evil, AND that we play that style, which is ridiculous.
If his vision is to get us playing like Bayern Munich, which as I say it has appeared at times (admittedly not often...) that that is what he has set out to achieve, I would be comfortable with that. There is undeniably a different style this season to last (I'm loath to say better...) but I think my main problem is I don't really know what Hughton's vision is because at the moment it's incoherent, so I can't answer your question and I'm not sure how anyone can
Can't tell if this is meant to be a joke or if there's a serious point you're making? You'll need to give me a little more to work on, I'm not feeling desperately quick off the mark today.
