Off Topic Catalonia

Almost 900 injured. Terrible move by Spain.

If Spain had just said "don't vote" and called the referendum illegal (as they are now) then not only would almost 900 people not be injured today they would have fared better in Catalonia today.

I've no doubt their actions have pushed alot of people from the remain to the separatist camp. By sending in the police and rough housing the citizens they've legitimised Catalonia's grief and Independence movement.

Think we're more likely to see an independent Catalan because of what Spain did than if they had just let people vote and then declare it null and void. (Probably still won't happen... But I'm sure we'll see violence now from small groups). Imagine if Cameron had sent police in to roughhouse the Scottish instead of letting them have a referendum. You could guarantee Scotland would definitely be wanting to leave the union today.

Hoping we see some Western leaders stand up and criticise Spain for how they handled this.

If this were Turkey, Angela Merkel would be tearing them apart in the newspapers.

 

Cack handed idiocy by the Spanish. They should have just let it be done and then said today - we told you it was illegal, so you've wasted your time, sorry.

Instead they wade in like morons and created havoc. Whoever was in control of that operation should be canned.

 

Why didn't they just declare it illegal beforehand, then afterwards simply arrest any organisers who used any public money/resources for it on corruption/misuse of funds charges?

 

I think they sadly got what they wanted.

Less than 50% turnout and chaos is better for them than a 70% turn out with 80% in favour.

They have no clear result now and will play on that.

5 mil Catalan voters 2 mil or so voted... with no observation or validation and a stupidly high yes vote all adds up to

"Now you know who's in charge"

The real story I think is the Catalans want control of tax per the Basque region but this would out a 15bil hole in the federal budget and break half of Spain.

 

I think they did.

 

I mean the second part, better to label the organisers as corrupt and go after them on financial issues with lawyers than acknowledge the political issues and go after them with stormtroopers

 

It was dumb, and smacked of someone wanting to create a kick off.

 

40 something % is significant turn out for a vote.


The thing is... All polls showed Catalans were slightly against Independence before the referendum. Left alone they probably would have voted not to split.

I'd be surprised if most Catalans wanted to remain part of Spain after that fiasco.

 

No it's not! Not for a referendum.

40% is significant in face of police but I think you Americans are losing touch with politics are you don't turn out.

76% voted in Germany
65% in Macron election
70% in uk last year.

58% in trump debacle

40% to declare independence is just too low

 

You're missing the point, the others were legal and were going to be actioned, this was neither and that makes a 40% turnout very high in the circumstances

 

yes I take that point. MY point was irrespective of bravery facing down the non catalan police the spanish government can simply point to turn out and probably fraud in guys voting several times as nothing was monitored and say the thing was a terrible waste

They can say the silnet majority don't want it.

they can say whatever the hell they like basically. Not nice but thats what i think they will do.

It was a pointless referendum where local judges rules it was illegal but they pushed ahead anyway so then the spanish government decided to show their franco colours rather than just piss on it after.

As i said 40% turn out v 70/80% turnout is a lot easier to brush off. Sadly the ****s got what they wanted by resorting to violence.

 

It's sectarianism...on both sides over many years. It seems an insane response by national govt until you take that into account. Those national officers WANTED a chance to go in batons flying.

The Catalan independence movement really is steeped in racialism which is why it was never getting a yes....until a reactionary govt put on the jackboots.

Also fear based on just how important economically the area has become to Spain.

Govts never learn though....always overreact and turn things like this into a recruitment drive. Wait for a Basque Eta type organisation to spring up as a result

 

Of Catalonia got independence, would Barca and Real be in separate leagues? ???

 

muddies the water but barca directors are seeking to deflect from betrayal of catalonia by playing the game on the weekend by talking they could move.

 

Maybe they're trying to make sure they win their league every time?

 

Have been asking the same question but starting with the word if

I dunno what league Barca and Espanyol (also Catalonian) would be in

Their own Catalonian one consisting of their A, B and C teams I guess

 

The Barca ****s floated England. The only league they can go to is france. UEFA would not allow it as they stopped Monaco going to Italy a while ago.

 

Never happened ^

 

Yeah guess so

It does make some sense to class Monaco as a French team, even though the principality was founded by Italians, since it has three borders with France and one with the sea and France have been politically involved there for a long time and Italy have only sporadically tried to regain it and for conflicted reasons, although I'm sure it's possible to and some people there do perhaps claim Italian heritage apart from the Grimaldis

The Catalonia issue seems more complicated due to its modern proximity to and border with both France and Spain and historically the political involvement and cultural influence of both France and Spain in say the Franco-Spanish War. I guess if Barca and Espanyol ended up in Ligue 1 that would be amazing for them, PSG v Barca in domestic matches for example

 

Doubt it. Not immediately. Smaller teams and lower leagues may play separately but I bet bigger teams would remain in Spanish league. Welsh in England; Monaco plays in France. I bet Catalan teams would play in Spain. Maybe eventually they would get their own league.