Can we play the Barca formation? (Tactical Discussion)

http://www.leazesterrace.com/tactical-discussion-newcastle-united-and-the-4-6-0/?

I think with work we could do this but the main problem we would have is our wingers are not goal scorers. Barca succeed because Villa and Pedro get into the box and play more as inverted wingers who make runs behind the defence and score goals. But we have the CM's to play this formation and dominate possession. This would be a last case scenario if our strikers go through a terrible run of form IMO.

For those who cannot access the link, here is the article:


With a squad heavy on midfield resources and short on numbers in attack, James Williams from Footy Ramblings takes a look at the potential for Newcastle to adopt an unconventional 4-6-0 formation.

Over time tactics have evolved and at the forefront of these changes have been forward thinking coaches and managers. At the turn of the 20th century football teams regularly lined up in a 2-3-5 formation and involved little passing, with players running directly to the opposition goal.

Newcastle can hardly be likened to the tactically revolutionary teams such as Herbert Chapman’s Arsenal, Valery Lobanovsky’s Dynamo Kiev or Arrigo Sacchi’s AC Milan, but their current abundance of midfielders could potentially lead them to a formation that World Cup winning coach Carlos Alberto Parreira described as the next evolution in tactical thinking; 4-6-0.

Més que un formación


Typical Barcelona attacking 6
First thoughts of the formation are negative; the idea of playing without a recognised striker not exactly setting the pulses racing. However, take a look at current European Champions Barcelona, widely regarded as the best team on the planet, and a concrete formation is hard to pin down. The back four is fairly solid, followed by a defensive midfielder and the two geniuses Xavi and Iniesta in the middle of the park. However, in attack they have David Villa and Pedro on the left and right, and Lionel Messi playing through the middle. If pinning these three down to positions, David Villa could be a left winger and Pedro a right winger, but Messi is a long way from a centre forward, dropping deep and roaming all over the final third of the field.

The obvious counter argument to this is the quality of the players available to Barcelona is far superior to those plying their trade at St James Park. Much as Tiote and Cabaye have the potential to be good together, even the most ardent of Toon fans would swap them for Xavi and Iniesta.

Midfield resources

Through the joys of social media, Newcastle fans are able to share their thoughts with others on a wide array of topics including team selection and formation. Despite their impressive start to the season, some fans have suggested that 4-4-2 isn’t the way forward for Newcastle and that a 4-5-1 formation could be beneficial. After the game against QPR a fortnight ago it was apparent that Tiote and Cabaye were overran in midfield, with Obertan remaining out wide and Gutierrez having to drop deep to assist Ryan Taylor in marshalling Sean Wright-Phillips.

Taking this a step further, could Newcastle explore a 4-6-0 formation? One thing for certain is they have the personnel for such a system. With the starting four of Yohan Cabaye, Cheick Tiote, Gabriel Obertan and Jonas Gutierrez joined on the midfield roll by Hatem Ben Arfa, Danny Guthrie, Dan Gosling, Mehdi Abeid, Sylvain Marveaux, Haris Vučkić, Shane Ferguson, Sammy Ameobi and Alan Smith, Newcastle have 13 midfielders on their books who have first team experience. Whilst these players all have different attributes to bring to the team, as a collection, six could be picked in a line up not featuring a striker and still produce a goal threat.

How Newcastle could set up using a 4-6-0


Newcastle's potential midfield 6 in a 4-6-0
Mimicking the Barcelona set up, Tiote could take the defensive midfield roll in front of the back four, with Cabaye and Guthrie/Gosling taking the central berths. Out wide it would be two from Obertan, Gutierrez, Marveaux and Ferguson. The obvious selection for a central attacking midfielder is Hatem Ben Arfa, a skilful number 10 type player who can beat a man and has an eye for goal, and if he isn’t fit, Vučkić could deputise, providing a little more physicality alongside his obvious ability.

Whilst a Newcastle 11 lining up without a recognised centre forward would be a worry for some fans, it would also ask questions of any opposition lining up with a traditional back line. Central defenders are used to having to pick up at least one central striker, and a formation with a fluid midfield with players interchanging and deep lying attackers would cause concern due to the potential amount of possession it could generate for Newcastle. Key to this system would be the pass and move principle, which is a mindset that has lacked on occasion at St James’ Park.

The obvious drawback is the formation wouldn’t have the usual outlet that a traditional centre forward would give. Leon Best has been successful in winning headers and holding the ball up, Demba Ba has showed an ability to drop deep and link the play between midfield and attack and Shola can keep the ball at his feet and hold off defenders (even without giving away a free-kick sometimes). An advanced trio of Ben Arfa, Gutierrez and Obertan wouldn’t have the same physicality of a line up that features one or any two of Shola, Best and Ba.

In summary…

It is unlikely that Pardew has thought of using his midfield riches this way, and with Leon Best and Demba Ba in the goals, and Ben Arfa on the comeback trail, it is not feasible at this time. However, should Pardew want to try something completely different – he has the resources to do so.

 

tl;dr

 

I' can't be arsed to read that at this time, so i'm out.

 

No.

 

We'd need to seriously up our passing accuracy, also not sure what team we'd play that formation against?

 

Wouldn't work in England as you get very little time on the ball. And like the article points out, we don't have anywhere near the quality they do.

 

Not a chance.

Pedro and Villa are both basically strikers. You could put either one of them as a lone striker in most EPL teams and they would do very well. Could you do that with Jonas or Obertan? No bloody way.

And then you have Messi, who is good enough to act as a striker and no10 playmaker at the same time. Imo he's like Arsenal's Bergkamp and Henry partnership rolled into one player. I'd say Ben Arfa has similar attributes to Messi in his playing style, but obviously nowhere near as good.

Basically, we could do a '4-6-0' formation if we wanted to, but I think a normal 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 will always be much more effective, so there's no point.

 

I think Bruce should buy 10 muscular gymnasts and sign them as keepers. Then during matches he can put out a 10-0-0-0 formation with 10 keepers and gets them all to stand on their shoulders and form an impenetrable human wall to deflect the hundreds of shots on goal from the opposition team, thereby ensuring a 100% unbeaten record.

 

It would be great to try it out in a friendly match though. Cabaye could be our Xavi, Tiote our Busquets and Ben Arfa our Messi. Of course this is just play around stuff but would be interesting to see if it would work and maybe our wingers have goals in them that we or even they didn't know about. I think Obertan may have some finishing skills in a one-on-one situation.

 

-----------Tiote--------------
----Cabaye --- Marveaux ----
---Best --- Ben Arfa --- Ba----

Tiote as the DM, Cabaye and Marv as the CM's, and then Best, Ben Arfa and Ba as the front 3, with Ben Arfa acting in the messi-style striker/number 10 role. They'd all work together as an attacking 3, as we know that Ba and Best can not only score goals, but they can also put crosses in and put balls into the box.

That's pretty much as close to the Barca style 4-6-0 as we could get.

 

That actually looks good. I think Best would be uncomfortable on the wing because he is more of a poacher than someone who dribbles and attempts to take on the opposition. However, being on the wing may help him to stay onside as he would be able to look along the line when making his run behind a defence. Ba would be comfortable in that position IMO and Marv is a great shout to partner Cabaye in the middle.

 

Would never work with our current set of players, unfortunately.

 

We don't have the personnel to use this system.

 

I get your logic, but for me that works better for us as the Keegan forward triangle, with Ben Arfa playing the Michael Owen role. I'd be tempted to bring Gosling in rather than Marveaux too, with that front three we'd need box to box types to keep he balance.

It's interesting, but with the likes of Jonas, Marv and Obertan in our squad I think it will be either Ben Arfa + 1, or 2 strikers, otherwise we lose out defensively.

 

As the article states, our players are no where near Barcelona's and I think the only reason it works for them is because the players are so good.

Like it or not, we're always going to need a player we can lump up it up to when under pressure or we can't pass through the opposition team.

 

I've always liked this sort of formation, but its usually just played the same as a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 anyway. I've already watched Barca a couple of times this season play 3 at the back with this, just to include Fabregas in.

It relies on having your DM hold is position as well as both wingers, everyone else pretty much has free roles. It works for Barca, but the quality and style of the game over there is completely different. Im not too sure it would work here.

Like other people have already said though, its hardly 4 defenders, 6 midfielders. Villa is one of the best strikers in the world...

Pedro and Villa score plenty even when playing out wide. We dont have wide men like that. Chelsea did it similar for a little bit, but you need very high quality wingers for that to work. Ribery, Robben, Sanchez, Pedro, Villa, etc... I think Ben Arfa could possibly work as one but thats it...

I dont agree with Ben Arfa doing the 'Messi role' either. Totally different and way too one footed to be able to play there in my opinion. I'd prefer to have him play the role behind with Cabaye, if not on one of the wings.

 

IMO Barca play a 4-3-3 just not with an out and out striker, messi plays in a 'false nine' role (and since when was Villa not a striker?). It changes to a 3-2-5 when the fullbacks push forward and Biscuits drops in between the two center backs.

Also, no, we couldnt