Below is a statement from the Football Supporters Federation regarding the introduction of safe standing all football grounds, please sign up: The Football Supporters’ Federation has launched a petition – visit www.fsf.org.uk/safestanding - as part of our campaign for the introduction of safe standing areas in the top two divisions in England and Wales. We know some of you might think that signing a petition is a bit of a futile gesture, but the timing for the campaign is crucial. There is currently a bill going through Parliament which faces its second reading in a little under three months time, and for the first time in two decades the Sports Minister has agreed to look at the evidence on safe standing. We have a short timeframe to gather support and prove that there is a groundswell of opinion behind fans’ choice to stand at football in England and Wales. Within a week of launching the petition, nearly 10,000 fans added their voices to our campaign, but we need a great deal more support behind our cause. The more numbers that back our campaign, the stronger our case to the Government and football authorities will be. There is a great deal of nonsense spoken about standing by the mainstream media and football commentators, and we feel we are constantly fighting an uphill battle. The most common argument is that standing is inherently unsafe. If that is the case, why is it allowed in Leagues One and Two? If standing was truly unsafe, it would be outlawed not only in the lower leagues, but at horseracing, rugby, motorsport and concerts (some of which are held in all-seater football stadiums). Our position is that if standing is safe in the lower leagues, then it must be safe in the top two divisions. We find the idea that safety is dependent upon the quality of football played on the pitch as absolutely absurd, and logically flawed. Many opponents to standing mistakenly cite Hillsborough as a reason not to allow its introduction. Their argument is that a return to terraces means another Hillsborough disaster is inevitable. The tragic loss of lives in 1989 was not caused by standing; the Taylor Report primarily blamed the failure of police control. It did not ban standing, nor claim it was inherently unsafe. Furthermore, we are not calling for a reintroduction of terraces. Modern safe-standing areas in Germany feature convertible seats, with barriers between every row. The FSF’s Safe Standing Campaign is also not just about those who prefer to stand. By giving supporters the choice, we think that everyone benefits. Those who wish to stand can do so, while those who prefer to sit no longer have to worry about having their view blocked. Every week thousands of fans stand in front of their seats for large parts of the game, and attempts by the authorities to end this practice have failed. Fans are standing in ever greater numbers, and we think they should be able to do so in safely designed and managed areas where possible. The FSF does not propose that the stringent safety standards laid down in the Government’s Green Guide be abolished or weakened in any way, and nor are we suggesting that clubs should be forced to provide safe standing areas. Issues around cost and feasibility should be a matter for individual clubs and their fans, not for the government. If you agree with us that fans should have the choice to sit or stand at football, please add your name to the thousands already in favour of safe standing. Now’s the best chance we’ll have to make a difference. We, as football fans, have to stand up for ourselves. The FSF is the national supporters’ organisation for all football fans and represents more than 180,000 individual fans and affiliate members, such as supporters' clubs, throughout England and Wales. Once closed this petition will be handed to the relevant government and football authorities. The Football Supporters’ Federation is offering supporters’ organisations and fanzines the opportunity to have the Safe Standing Roadshow visit their club in the coming weeks and months. The roadshow is run by Jon Darch and supports the FSF’s Safe Standing Campaign by providing supporters with the opportunity to see a “rail seat” area in action. Fans can also come along and see the roadshow at the FSF’s FANS PARLIAMENT on July 9th in London. Registration is free from www.fsf.org.uk The unit consists of four ‘rail seats’ (from a batch made for VfB Stuttgart in Germany) mounted on a platform in the design of a small grandstand PICTURES HERE. It measures 2m x 2.3m and can be set up outside or indoors (subject to double-door access). By standing at the rail seats on the roadshow unit club executives, safety officers, local councillors and MPs can get a genuine feel of what ‘safe standing’ would be like if such seats were allowed to be installed in a designated standing area at your ground. The roadshow recently made its first appearance at , where a representative group of fans indicated clearly to the club’s chief executive that they felt supporters should have the choice to sit or stand and that a significant number would personally like the opportunity to stand. A report on that event, including a link to the independent minutes, is available CLICK HERE. The unit has since made appearances in the North East, Scotland and Merseyside - read a report of that event CLICK HERE- and is being lined up to visit Arsenal, Stoke City and Portsmouth in the coming weeks. If you would like to hold a similar event at your club (or arrange a private demonstration behind closed doors for your club executives), please contact FSF member Jon Darch (email below), who is running the roadshow. He’ll be happy to arrange a suitable date with you. If you have any further question please email Jon: [email protected] Statement - http://www.hullcityindependent.net/?...ws&news_id=624
I am totally in support of this. If a stadium can be filled with standing and sitting people for concerts it should be even safer at football matches.
After the recommendations in the Taylor report regarding the Hillsborough disaster non standing at football matches became local by-laws in the towns and cities,It also went through parliament and was voted for,It would now be a complicated process to undo. Add to that the cost to clubs to rip out seating and install terrace barriers in their place and the fact that after paying for the removal of the seats they would lose revenue due to standing areas being cheaper than the seats they took out. It just wont happen(IMO)
I can't see it happening even though I would like to stand at matches. The main reason, 'We, cannot be trusted, 'We, have proved that. Add alchohol even in small amounts and there are always fools that ruin it for everyone and they dont have to be hooligans either, it takes a small number to start a large row and in a standing area that is harder to spot harder to manage too. Seating can accomodate more people safely, if we had a standing area full of people with a bit of common sense if would be completely safe, well I'd like to see that but averages say there are numpties per 100 people so.. The amount of claims for injuries ect.. the cost will be too high for clubs even though the atmosphere would be better, though, when on song beit sitting or standing it Anfield gets fkn loud as ell. I would prefer to stand, but not on a Europa League group match night
Very good quote. That settled it for me. No chance i'm signing anything. Not sure the OP considered Hillsborough when he posted this thread.
I have great memories of standing on The Kop with 28,000 others. The atmosphere was great but I have to admit that it was not the best or most comfortable way of watching the match. Every match we passed down fellers who had got caught on the crash barriers and The Kop was one of the better organised terraces in the country. Goodison's little steps were a nightmare! and Old Trafford didn't have enough barriers to control the surges. Now in my dotage I don't want to go back to those days. However, they seem to manage it in Germany.
It probably is possible to provide "safe standing areas" in theory, however its the policing of these areas that is (as we all know to our cost) the biggest issue. At the moment football matches are pretty well policed and stewarded but with the upcoming budget cuts police forces will be a lot less willing to provide the same levels of cover for football grounds as they do at the moment and standing areas will undoubtedly require MORE policing not less. Do I have any faith in the authorities to do this properly...no I don't. I loved my years standing on The Kop and am not neccesarilly against a return to standing at grounds sometime in the future but am I convinced it is feasible to do it safely yet...not at all.
Actually I would say that some of this justification logic is flawed. Why do you think standing is allowed on leagues 1 and 2 for example? (hint attendance). The other sports you mention are not really relevant either.
"Yes, Ms. McAuliffe, you can rest assured the Challenger shuttle is very safe. It's NASA technology, for Heaven's sake, which is the very best that money can buy. There isn't a safer piece of technology in the world. And that, by the way, includes football stadiums."
The mighty Kop held around 28,000 in its heyday,no deaths ever occured on the terrace but as you say dave there were plenty of victims of crash barrier injuries,lost shoes and wet feet due to the piss gushers. The biggest danger back in the day was leaving by the Kemlyn Rd exit and trying to safely get down the steep steps(sometimes your feet never touched the steps from top to bottom),and if it was snowing it was even worse. I miss standing in the kop but i respect the memory of our fallen brothers and sisters and i respect the views of their families and loved ones,and i share KK's view on the subject..
Too true. Alcohol and large groups of people does not mix. You saw our fans at the Haye fight last night as the fighters walked to the ring. Could of so easily got out of control and turned into a riot. You have to have massive policing and control, and has ben said, as a country we don't have it. The problem is when it going wrong, it's too late, people are already getting crushed - how do you stop that when it's happening? You can't.
Too risky, when something goes wrong it will nearly always be very dangerous. it could only work with sparsely populated stands which would defeat the whole purpose of creating atmosphere. Alternatively there could be a narrow strip of standing area where the bottom two rows of seats are right around the pitch, that would hold some people but not many, like the crowd that watch rallies, these tickets would be few but would give those who want to stand a chance to in safety because the area wouldn't be able to hold enough people to have any sort of dangerous situation..
I think we should just to leave it unless it can be properly managed - it can't. A rainy day in a L1 or L2 team struggling on finance could easily result in disaster. And people would say we never learnt our lesson.
Totally agree brother. When I try to explain that you could go from the top to the bottom of The Kop steps without touching the ground they don't believe me! Where did you stand? Our speck was three -quarters of the way up the lower section, behind the goal and slightly to the right. I think that even though The Kop is/was iconic, we should forgoe the ability to stand in respect ot those no longer with us and their families.
Firstly, I should point out that I posted a statement from the Football Supporters' Federation, they are not my words, they obviously I support them, or I wouldn't have posted it. It's a bit of a long statement and based on some of the comments, I assume quite a few haven't actually read it all and followed the links to see what 'safe standing' actually is. Safe standing(following the German model) still has seats, they just have a barrier as part of the seat design, so they can also be used for standing too. They take up as much room as seats, so there's no real cost saving and little opportunity to get more people into the ground. This is a campaign to allow standing to improve the atmosphere in grounds, something that has declined dramatically since all seater stadiums were introduced. Following the German model, I don't believe there is any increased risk of injury, merely a risk of a better matchday experience.
I've just realised that when I posted this to each board, the hyperlink only worked on the first one I posted, so no-one can actually link to see what safe standing looks like. It looks like this: please log in to view this image You buy a ticket just as you would for a seat(there's even a seat in each place), but you're able to stand there and it no more dangerous than having a seat.
So a spot per person, exactly like seasing except you can stand if you wish and the people behind are up a notch so you don't block their view if they sit. I like it.
