O'Brien has confirmed he returns next year. Camelot "is without question the best I have ever trained". "Always thought his best distance would be 10f" "Although I didnt think so before the race, it is clear that the Leger left its mark" Some of that is pure comedy and some of it true. I would ask why he never ran an Eclipse or a Juddmonte, and why, if 10f was optimum, he was trained for a 14f St Leger. Some of these comments are beggara belief. His 4 year old campaign will answer many questions. Thoughts?
Put him with SMS? The horse that is. After the Leger "maybe the Irish Derby took a lot out of him" After the Arc "maybe the St Leger left its mark" As far as I remember he was quite bullish before the races. FFS How can you have any confidence in what he says?
I'm not reading too much into today's performance. He shouldn't have run a) in the ground b) so soon after the st ledger It'll be interesting to see how he does next year. He is still a Derby and Guineas winner. If AOB genuinely believes he's the best he's trained then, on the basis that AOB has had some good ones, he should be looking at winning the POW at Royal Ascot and then the Eclipse or King George early season before being saved for a crack at the Juddmonte follwed by the Arc/Champion Stakes. I think if he'd won the St Ledger he never would have run today.
It's just all stallion talk isn't it? If he'd have won the Leger as he should have done, then he'll have been a mighty saleable item (the last two were). But due to poor jockeyship he didn't (look at Piggott winning his Legers: was Nijinsky certain to get 14f: no but Piggott didn't mess around holding him up for a late run he committed). So they then got silly and put him into the Arc and probably on going he didn't handle well. Now his reputation is in tatters, as is the whole 3yo generation. So what's the story that's going to make him a Coolmore stallion? Well he's really a 10f horse. Maybe he is, but he's now got to win a whole pile of 10f races next year. Coolmore must be hoping there's not a slowly improving star who's going to blossom next year, or a crack 3yo generation that's going to ruin their sales-line. Let's see.
They need to keep him in training to redeem his reputation. There is no doubt, in my mind, that had he won the Leger he'd have been whisked to Fethard faster than you could say "kerching"! As it stands, in the eyes of a mare owner, a new stallion is only as good as his last race. The PR wagon needs to start lowering expectations: every year we seem to hear that a Ballydoyle inmate is "the best we've ever had": Camelot, So You Think, Yeats, Holy Roman Emperor, Hawk Wing, etc etc. They can't all be better than each other!
If he's really a 10f horse then why put him in the Arc on dreadful going so soon after the Leger. Why didn't he give him a rest and go for the Champion? Ah, I think I know. We looked at Camelot before the race and said quite confidently (as I'm sure many would have) "Well he won't be winning". Why oh why FFs
Just a though, with exception of the mighty Frankel, just how deep is the talent in the UK at the moment? Does the world have more to offer that was at first thought?
Here is an idea for those having a go at Aidan O'Brien take out a trainers license and do better then come on here and spout ****e I may then respect your opinion thank you.
You earn the right to train horses like that - make your own luck and all that. Remember that Champion Hurdler he trained ?
I dont question his ability as a trainer. What I question is his bullshit. AOB the trainer and AOB the Coolmore Media Puppet are two different people and in this scenario his media comments undermine the way he has trained Camelot. And that is what is a problem. I hope he comes back a superstar next season, but on all evidence on a racetrack, so far it would appear, I say appear, unlikely. If he is the best AOB has trained what would be a satisfactory season for him next year?
I have absolutely nothing against AOB. He is an excellent trainer and, from what I hear, a lovely human being. It is the Coolmore PR machine/Tipperary Mafia that I have an issue with.
He was never going to win yesterday on that ground. The owners wanted him to run in the Arc so what - they can't win basically. He doesn't run "Ohh they bottled it" I agree with the point you made yesterday in regards to Imperial Monarch mind Toppy. As for next year he will be open to plenty of improvement. He has still done very little wrong. Got beat in the Leger (hard race and class horses get beat in that race) the majority on here blamed Joseph O'Brien for the defeat as well (personally I don't think Camelot was good enough on the day) and got beat in the Arc (worst ground conditions in 9 years for the race). He lost 2 shoes in the race and cut his hind leg (wouldn't have won anyways) but that seems to have been missed and will no doubt be seen an excuse even though Aidan O'Brien accepted defeat fairly. Duke Of Marmalade 7 defeats in a row at one point in his career - yes he had problems but my point is still valid. CAMELOT has done nothing wrong at all and is a guineas/ dual derby winner regardless of the rubbish 3yo crop this season. It is so easy to go back and look at other horses who beat ****ee 3yos in the guineas/derby. PN fair enough
It's not the horses fault that he's owners insist on spouting rubbish about him and i think thats what people are re-acting to rather than the horse's performance. I think he has won what the form book will prove to be a Poor guineas and poor Derby and Irish Derby and ran creditably in the St Leger and Arc and that record is not bad by anyones standard, if i had a horse and he did that i would be the happiest man alive. The PR machine of Coolmoore spouted this stuff about him and people buy into it and then it polarises opinion in this way as some believe the PR and some go on the form book, before the St Leger the stuff people were coming out with was crazy, even comparing him to Frankel. The form book however never supported any of this and his best performance (which was good) in the Derby was the equivilent of a group 3 with hindsight, pointing all of this out however does not make you anti camalot or anti Coolmoore it's just to say please don't act like we are stupid, let your horses do it and then make the claims as we do know what we are watching. With regard AOB personally i think he is a very good man who comes across very respectful and genuine.
2013 should be very interesting. Three years ago St Nicholas Abbey was supposed to be the next best thing to sliced bread, but that has not quite been acted out in reality. Camelot can be forgiven his Arc showing along with many of the others as conditions were dreadful. I could not understand why they went there when the conditions were known to be not to the horse’s liking. He beat moderate three-year-old opponents to win the Irish Derby on bottomless ground thanks to his class. Nobody can blame the best three-year-old for the fact that the rest of that generation were not very good – he could only beat the opposition that was available. They should have gone to the King George or the Eclipse rather than the Irish Derby as the likes of Nathaniel and Danedream would have proven excellent measures of his prowess. As a four-year-old he may still be able to laud it over his peers unless there are a couple of dark horses that blossom into cracking older horses after another winter. Will they go for a ten furlong campaign? It will be interesting to see what happens when he has to give weight to his juniors in the big all-aged races next season. Hopefully half of next year’s big meetings will not be ruined by the weather and next year’s three-year-olds will turn out to be a good yardstick against which to measure him.
Hi QM. What did Camelot look like in the flesh Sunday. He is a lovely athletic looking horse with a lovely flowing action (totally unsuited to very soft conditions, as witnessed in the Irish Derby). But he didn't look too great to me (and family) on Sunday and certainly didn't appear up to it; unlike Orfevre who looked magnificent. But we were armchair viewing so your opinion would be interesting.
Ron, I did not have the opportunity of a paddock inspection before the Arc because I knew that there was a pre-race parade so I went to get a position just after the winning post, surrounded by loads of Japanese photographers. I managed to find a photographer that was not standing on a small stool for added height so I was able to see over his head with my camera. As usual, the parade broke as soon as the first horse (Sea Moon) reached the winning post and Camelot flashed by right under my nose near the rail so I did not get a good look at him (or a photo). They really should do away with the walking parade and just have the runners canter to post in racecard order as we now do for our Classics. I hardly got a good look at any of the field as they came past in bunches and the ones I wanted to photograph were all obscured by other runners. On a total aside to the question of the four-year-old Camelot, I wonder if you can answer a question about Pure Arabians: Are grey Arabians very common or is this just my perception from the limited number of PA races that I see? On Arc weekend there were two top PA races and there were what I would consider a disproportionate number of greys in both races. Other than the “grey horse” race at Newmarket, I cannot ever recall seeing so many greys in two thoroughbred races. Three of the eleven entered on Saturday were grey and fifteen of the twenty on Sunday were also. On Arc Trials Day, four of the six runners were a lighter shade of black as were six of the twelve at Newbury on Lockinge day.
I don't know the % QM but grey is quite common but there seem to be a lot of bays and chestnuts around too. Here's a few pure bred stallions
