oh yeah, that was another one that should have been penalised; sailing all the way round turn one, off the track, overtaking everybody. it really is about time these cheats were cracked down on.
Button v Vettel
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oh yeah, that was another one that should have been penalised; sailing all the way round turn one, off the track, overtaking everybody. it really is about time these cheats were cracked down on.
It's not really cheating when they're told by the stewards they can do it though is it? All the drivers were allowed to use that runoff in both situations in the way of avoiding a collision. Both were then stopped after those situations happening but it was still legal at the time so really neither driver was cheating as they still followed the rule of the stewards.
Weren't they all told after the Rosberg/Hamilton incident at Bahrain that they would be penalised for exactly this type of situation? As soon as I saw him doing it I turned to my friend and said he'd get a penalty for it, Vettel and RBR only have themselves to blame, Vettel made the corner wider and therefore faster by going off track, the white lines are there for a reason, they mark the boundaries of the track
but they're not allowed to go off he track to gain an advantage. both vettel, and raikkonen did exactly that. therefore raikkonen should have been penalised, and vettel actually was penalised. i suppose because it was lap one it was easier to get away with by playing the avoiding a collision card. with vettel it just looked like he went off the track so he could get the power on earlier. hopefully the penalty will modulate his arrogant, cheating behaviour.
But that's my point in Australia 2011 Seb didn't break any rule as the stewards allowed it, same with Raikkonen in Spa 09.
Hockenheim was illegal as they were previously told not to do that unlike Australia and Spa. I can understand that you can call that "cheating" but it's not really cheating if the rule makers say you can do it.
it says in the rules that you are not allowed to go off the track and gain an advantage. vettel went off the track and gained an advantage. i can't see what point you are trying to make.
(The stewards allowed it to be used like that and so it was an added extension of the track.)
It's that simple! I don't know how to say it in any other way mate...
It was the same situation with Monza after Ascari, with every driver going over the white line to get a better exit because the stewards allowed it to happen and so legal! Both Kimi and Seb followed the book so they were not cheating or gaining an advantage as every driver could use it like that.
I don't get why people cant see the glaring differences with the events that you are debating.
Vettel's illegal pass of Button in Germany was at a very low speed corner, where there was no "need" for him to run wide off track other than to gain a glaring and blatant advantage.
Vettel's legal pass of Button in Australia was made at a corner where, If I recall correctly, the driers had all agreed that it was OK to run wide and go off track there. The subsequently changed their collective minds this year.
The other passes mentioned (Kimi and Lewis) were much more high speed, split second, going off track as much for life preservation as anything else moments where they were, to a certain degree, pushed off track by other drivers in a way. These incidents were very different to what happened at the loooowwwww speeeeeeddddd hairpin in Germany, where Seb had no "I was just following my instincts" or "he dagerously forced me off track" arguments as is was all very calm, and every driver in the world would knows that the driver on the inside, who comes out of the corner ahead will go out wide as they come out of the corner. As soon as Jenson went into that hairpin on the inside, unless a) Vettel had masses more traction and speed, or Jenson completely backed out, there was no way that Seb was going to get by without going off track, wand he would have known that long before they even arrived at the corner.
Vettel's illegal pass of Button in Germany was at a very low speed corner, where there was no "need" for him to run wide off track other than to gain a glaring and blatant advantage.
Vettel's legal pass of Button in Australia was made at a corner where, If I recall correctly, the driers had all agreed that it was OK to run wide and go off track there. The subsequently changed their collective minds this year.
The other passes mentioned (Kimi and Lewis) were much more high speed, split second, going off track as much for life preservation as anything else moments where they were, to a certain degree, pushed off track by other drivers in a way. These incidents were very different to what happened at the loooowwwww speeeeeeddddd hairpin in Germany, where Seb had no "I was just following my instincts" or "he dagerously forced me off track" arguments as is was all very calm, and every driver in the world would knows that the driver on the inside, who comes out of the corner ahead will go out wide as they come out of the corner. As soon as Jenson went into that hairpin on the inside, unless a) Vettel had masses more traction and speed, or Jenson completely backed out, there was no way that Seb was going to get by without going off track, wand he would have known that long before they even arrived at the corner.
But they already stated after Bahrain, officially, that anyone doing what Vettel did at hock would be penalised, so I really can't see what you're complaining about, Vettel could've, and should've, stepped off the gas and overtaken later rather than going 4 wheels off track to make a pass. whatever happened pre bahrain 2012 is irrelevant.
I'm not complaining about the incident at Hockenheim, I'm pointing out Seb didn't cheat and neither did Kimi when it happend at Australia 2011 and Spa-Francorchamps 2009 when they both went over the circuit limits as it was in fact legal to do at the time and then banned afterwards.
I have no issue with people saying Seb got an illegal advantage at Hockenheim, but he didn't at Australia 2011 as it was legal to do so.