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Brucie's net spend in relation to we have no money (according to some)

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by poolie_mackem, Aug 28, 2011.

  1. poolie_mackem

    poolie_mackem Well-Known Member

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    If anyone can help me fill in the gaps great (Y)

    In

    Fraizer Campbell - 3.5m
    Lorik Cana - 5.5m
    Paulo Da Silva - free
    Darren Bent - 10m
    Michael Turner - 4m
    Lee Cattermole - 4m
    Bolo Zenden - free
    Matt Kilgallon - ???
    Christian Riveros - free
    Simon Mignolet - 2m
    Titus Bramble - 1m
    Marcos Angeleri - 1.5m
    Asamoah Gyan - 13m
    Stephane Sessegnon - 6m
    Ahmed Elmohamady - 2m
    Craig Gardner - 6m
    Seb Larsson - free
    David Vaughan - free
    Keieran Westwood - free
    Connor Wickham - 8m
    Ji Dong-Won - 2m
    Wes Brown - 1m
    John O'Shea - 5m
    James McClean - 300k

    74.8m

    Out

    Dean Whitehead - 5m
    Michael Chopra - 4m
    Danny Collins - 2.75m
    Grant Leadbitter - ???
    Carlos Edwards - ???
    Greg Halford - ???
    Paul McShane - ???
    Anthony Stokes - ???
    Daryl Murphy - 1.4m
    Lorik Cana - 6m
    Marton Fulop - ???
    Kenwyne Jones - 8m
    Martyn Waghorn - 3m
    Darren Bent - 24m
    Paulo Da Silva - 750k
    Andy Reid - 1m
    Jordan Henderson - 20m
    Steed Malbranque - ???

    75.9m


    thats a profit (obv. dont know the players value with ??? next to there name so have left them out) good work if all thats correct.
     
    #1
  2. blackcatsteve

    blackcatsteve Well-Known Member

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  3. Cest Advocaat

    Cest Advocaat Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what point is being made?

    Is it that SB can balance the books or is it he hasn't been trusted with any money really, which tells it own tale?

    What would you rather have? A manager with a balanced book but no ability to win games, or one with a £30m deficit and a top 6 or 7 European team? We are a good striker and a left winger away form having that team IMO.

    Quinn and Short talk a good fight and promise ambition but if these figures are correct, it shows a cautious club with little ambition and no money?
     
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  4. Keane prods the giant

    Keane prods the giant Member

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    Well garn offer Man City 15-20 million for Adam Johnson. **** me could we do with his skill in the midfield
     
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  5. Lostinvegas

    Lostinvegas Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the fee to buy anyone is an issue. It's can we attract them and can we afford to pay their wages for possibly 5 years. Bruce seems to like a loan to try before he buys. Imagine we had spent big money on Muntari?

    Players like Mcartney who is on 45k a week still will be on their mind when looking at contracts.
     
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  6. parkersafc

    parkersafc Active Member

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    If you count Bent as +24m and Hendo +20m then you have to -12m for Wickham. As they are the maximum potential figures what wed receive and payout.
     
    #6

  7. David Moyes' Stupid Face

    David Moyes' Stupid Face Well-Known Member

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    True, you should also count Bent as -16 not -10 (or if he's -10 then he's only +18, either way, 8m profit)

    The most worrying thing for me is on that transfer site steve posted above, in 09/10:

    ****ing hope that's not right...
     
    #7
  8. parkersafc

    parkersafc Active Member

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    Norfolk, as good as that site is there some horrendous errors. Says Newcastle received 30m from whu for Nolan. Also has Lionel Perez signed the same year as Kevin Phillips.
     
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  9. blackcatsteve

    blackcatsteve Well-Known Member

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    where does it say 30 million for nolan?

    Kevin Nolan West Ham 2.992.000 £

    like i said its probably not going to be spot on to the £ with transfers that go through undisclosed but it is quite a good ballpark to look at, if i was a journalist i wouldnt use it, but for us as fans, its probably the best thing out there, there is another but i cant remember the url.
     
    #9
  10. parkersafc

    parkersafc Active Member

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    They must have corrected it. I see it now just says Turner Signed. doesnt state a fee
     
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  11. bonnybobbypark

    bonnybobbypark Well-Known Member

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    Its pointless arguing about the price of players. Its a sellers market and if you want the best you have to offer top dollar.

    Also, to contend for Europe, silverware you need the stars and unless you bring them through yourself, you have to give them premium wages too.

    (I know what follows isn't likely!)

    Lets say Messi told his agent "I want to play for SAFC - I need to play for them, but I need £250k per week.

    Would you baulk at paying it?

    Spin it round. We want good players to challenge for things. Therefore sometime along the line you have to pay out the big money.

    Do you REALLY want Bruce - or think Bruce - is the man to do that?

    x
     
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  12. concrete tony

    concrete tony Well-Known Member

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    Rather than transfer fees i think it's all about wages these days. We'll be giving Oshea and Brown big wages for an awful long time.
     
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  13. blackcatsteve

    blackcatsteve Well-Known Member

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    But surely Bruce doesnt pull the purse strings, if Messi did get on the phone to Bruce and said that, do you not think Bruce would cream his pants, and then think, bugger, its never going to happen, not because i dont want it to, but because of the wages.

    Like i said on the other thread,

    We have a wage cap, lets say its 50,000 a week.
    because we have a cap, we have 5 players on that, but also wrote into their contract is the clause, They have to match the top earners, earnings.
    We have a cap, so thats not a problem, as they are at the top end so unlikely to meet the clause ever, but it makes the player happy.
    We then go and sign someone on £100,000 per week, and break that wage cap.
    Those 5 players wi want £100,000 per week as well, and as its in their contract we cant say no.
    5 * 50,000 = £250,000 + the £100,000 for the original player = £350,000 per week * 52 = £18,200,000 in wages extra per year, just for signing that 1 player.

    I dont know if we have anyone with that clause in, but i woud be very surprised, if we did not, it may not be 5, it could even be more, but you can see why we are reluctent to break our wage cap, if we do have players with that clause in.
     
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  14. monty987

    monty987 Well-Known Member

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    Just seen Man city's figures about £460 m in debt!.
     
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  15. bonnybobbypark

    bonnybobbypark Well-Known Member

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    You dont pay the wages, you dont get the players.

    You get relegation cast-offs, youngsters and green foreigners who you hope like hell gel.................

    Oh deaar.

    x
     
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  16. blackcatsteve

    blackcatsteve Well-Known Member

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    again though, why is that Bruces fault? surely Short holds the purse strings, we dont have a turnover of a Man U/Arsenal, its probably less than Newcastle tbh, if you want better players, then the club will have to put ticket prices up, which will mean even less fans through the turnstiles.

    A cup run doesnt bring in much extra income in the grand scheme of things, even the Europa league doesnt, you have to get into the CL, but then its a catch 22 situation, you spend the cash to get into the CL, but you break the fair play rules doing so, so they ban you from it.

    But I just cant see how not breaking our wage cap (to please the fans) is Steve Bruces fault, I cant even see how the wage cap is Steve Bruces fault.
     
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  17. bonnybobbypark

    bonnybobbypark Well-Known Member

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    Steve. You're right.

    That means we have to look at SNQ and Short - but I don't think Short signed up for mediochraty, do you?

    x
     
    #17
  18. Cest Advocaat

    Cest Advocaat Well-Known Member

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    We sold Bent for £20m. We sold Hendo for £20m = £40m

    We spent (approx) £26m this summer and £6m on Sessegnon = £32m

    We had to give Spurs £6m to pay off the debt we owed = £6m

    Therefore, we currently have a £2m profit for the year to date.

    Short hasn't given Bruce a single penny this term and if he trusted him, surely he would have sanctioned a few bob to buy a striker. Wouldn't he?

    My take is that Short doesnt fancy SB at all and has said you're getting nowt more to spend, over and above what you sell or bring in. knowing that, Bruce had to target a goalscorer before any other player didn't he? So why didn't he?

    If the budget was so tight then Wickham WASNT a priority for us. Using that money to get a proven goal scorer WAS. The whole thing is cock-eyed and upside down to me. Poor management which ever way you view it.
     
    #18
  19. bonnybobbypark

    bonnybobbypark Well-Known Member

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    If Ellis doesn't rate him, why not get rid at the start of the summer?

    x
     
    #19
  20. blackcatsteve

    blackcatsteve Well-Known Member

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    I dont think it has sod all to do with Bruce, I think its just short isnt wiling to plough millions into the club, and that could also be why they stil have Bruce, wil cost a bit to get rid, then get a new man in and it may cost a fortune, if he wants to bring his own players in over the next 2 seasons.

    I think its a few problems though.

    The wage cap like I explained above
    No full houses (well very few)
    Transfer Fees:
    in American sports there is no transfer fees, so say a player is worth 30 million, you can give that player a 30 million contract over the term of his contract, with transfer fees, its 30 million to buy him, then 250,000 a week which is 52,000,000 over his 4 year contract (silly money if you ask me).
    Our wages are already something like 84% of our total turnover, again silly money. Man United wages are something like 50% of their total turnover.

    As for not getting a goalscorer, maybe there was no one available, Ba went to Newcastle but he is ****e if you ask me, other than that I cant think of many more forwards that may have come to us and got us the 15-20 goals that have moved between clubs, last week of the window, we will see lots of movement, both home and abroad, so maybe that star striker we are after, will be surpless to requirements at their parent club and we can move in for him.

    Remember last season, was the last day of the window and we splashed out 13 million on Gyan, so it could still happen by Wednesday.

    But i dont think its got sod all to do with Short not liking Bruce as our manager.
     
    #20

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