Here's one for the morning crew to reply to. Following on from Bills 'getting it off his chest' post earlier, I guess I'd like to state where I am with him right now (that's Bruce not Bill). I too have lost faith in the manager but not the man. I like Bruce the man and think he is quite the decent bloke in fact. However, as I have stated, IMO he hasn't made the impact I have hoped for 2 years ago, when I was delighted he became our manager and this summers recruitment of maybe up to 8 players again is a ridiculous scenario to find ourselves in AGAIN. The 2 consecutive slumps from Jan to May have left me perplexed and disillusioned with the manager and I've made that very clear over recent weeks. That poor show left a bitter taste in my mouth and I couldn't hold back in my feelings at the time. However and its a big however, the time is right now to draw a line under the heated debate as he is the manager and will be barring a complete disaster form August onwards, so we have to hope he gets it right this summer and brings in the player that get me back on track with him. With Judas and Jordan gone, there is much anticipation as to who will replace them and early signs are very encouraging, with the type of player we are looking making a vast improvement. i want Bruce to show me he is the manager I thought he was going to be but he needs a plan B now as plan A ran aground at the back end of the season (twice) and he can only be judged truly when he has his new squad to choose from. Hence, I am no longer calling for the managers head, rather asking that he keeps it over the summer and then we can see what he can do going forward. Bruce is backed by the chairman and the owner so we will have to get on with it and look forward now.
Cest This is SB third season in charge he has been backed by the owner, spent alot of money but he has also brought alot of money back into the club mainly from the sales of judas & Hendo. IMO this season has GOT to a really good one or he will be sacked. like you say lets just get on with it and see what happens. KTF
We need a long-term manager and the most successful stay a long time. He has to avoid relegation, the fans and the Board will expect that much at least. If we're in the bottom 6 or 7 by Christmas (and we lost our August derby) -I believe that will be enough for the exit door. If we're in for another end-of-season relegation battle, the ****er can swing and - I'm sure I speak for all with this.
He's playing with fire this season, So far he's doing ok, but with some of these potential signings,are gonna cost him dearly imo. Sure he's got something planned, he has to have.
I get the feeling that the time, effort and care that seems to be going into the transfer activity tells us that Short,Quinn and Bruce are all very well aware of how important this summers recruitment is and how important next season is. I would be quite happy with a tenth place finish again but it must be a consistant 10th place, no good start, crap middle and lucky end.
I honestly never thought I'd see the day when finishing tenth in the Premiership could split our fans the way it did. Guess it shows the recent improvement in Sunderland's stature.. Some say "ah yes but it was a lucky tenth". Virtually the whole first team crocked lucky? Some say. "Bruce has spent a fortune" When in fact he has made a profit whilst guiding the team from 16th to 13th to 10th. Some say. "His tactical know how is shocking" This I find intriguing. The way we fans believe we know more about tactics than some one who has spent a lifetime in Football as well as playing under AF. This coming season another top half finish will do me and I honestly don't care whether it's lucky or brilliant.
I still back Bruce and as Sunderland fans we will give him our full support and enjoy the victories but also accept defeat when it comes our way. I also agree its make or break this season, another relegation flirt would signal the end I would suspect. The next few seasons are all about top ten consolidation, we need to establish ourselves consistantly in the top ten but Europe is many seasons away. One major aspect of the 2011/2012 season has to be taking the cups seriously as Bruce has failed miserably so far in this department. My final point is that Bruce has to build a team that Sunderland fans will remember not a constantly changing squad as I doubt any Sunderland fans in 20 years time will remember that Sunderland team of 2009-2011, too many ins and outs. IBWT
IBWT - Problem with the cups is would you accept an FA or League cup win and relegation?? It would make Bruce the 1st manager in 39 years to win a trophy but we'd be doing what Brum did this season. The cups have sadly (for me) lost all of their glamour as they are no longer a golden prize - you get hardly any prize money for winning the league and FA cups compared to finishing 4th bottom of the league so that immediately (to a businessman) makes a higher league position more attractive (IMO). We need a massive sponsorship deal for the FA cup or a Champs League place at the end of it to make it more competitive and glamorous again
The problem is not split fans mate its that we have been here before and can see the writing. The 2nd year Reid finished 7th was another season I was extremely worried about our position. It seems ridiculous that to finish 7th would have alarm bells ringing but they rang very loudly. We fluked that finish that year as well if you remember, ending the season with a whimper and the following year we limped along badly and then the year after worse still and then we were relegated. AGAIN. Reidys team was full of flair and imagination and attacking intent and yet despite some wonderful football, we were relegated anyway. We cashed in on assets and the club slumped to its most humiliating time since the mid 80's with these 2 record low points tallies. Thank **** for Derby county I still say. Bruce may well have finished 10th and in isolation, its a great place but if we are honest, up until the very last kick of the season, we could just as well have been 13th as well. The relegation spots were just over our shoulder and I still say that Wigan game was the catalyst for our survival. We didn't exactly steam roller Wigan and we needed some divine intervention after the injuries but that game saved the season. We could easily go one of 3 ways this coming campaign. We could slump and be relegated. We could leap forward and take the bull by the horns and be comfortable top 10 or we could be stagnant and have a season exactly like the last one. The fact that I sit here today and in all honesty cant say for definite which path we will take is scary and not exactly a ringing endorsement of the managers ability. I want Bruce to succeed. I desperately want him to but I need some hellish convincing now that he is the man to take on the job at hand, even after a 10th place finish and as we enter our 5th consecutive top flight season.
Thing is Cest - the regime (Board level) is so much different to when Reidy was here - Reid was not willing to invest when we were sitting 2nd in nthe league - had he invested at that point we'd have been able to push Man Utd for the title (and that's no exaggeration) as all other clubs had given up on catching us and Utd - but he didn't invest anything and thought we could get there with what we already had - and we finished 7th rather than in the top 4 (or 2). I believe Quinn and Short are realistic - 10th was an excellent league position last season and an improvement on the season before. had the winless run not been a "Run" and been stretched through the season (i.e. lose against the big teams and an occasional loss every now and then instead of 1 point from 13 games and we'd all have been much happier. We all slated the club for not buying a striker but, imo, defence was the problem and the reason we lost so many last season as it was terrible when we had to chop and change all the time (with bramble, Turned etc. injured) and this cost us a few extra places IMO I'm not saying the forward(s) covered themselves with glory (or the midfield for that matter) but the defence was the biggest problem we had in that winless run - keeper was shaky and defence was, at times, like the red sea
Well Marcus there is definately a poison chalace theme to the cup competitions in recent years but it doesnt have to always turn out that way, Fulham managed to get into the Europa League final and still finish tenth in the league. Even just a good cup run next year maybe getting into the semis or final would make the season more exciting and hopefully we assemble a good enough squad this summer to cope.
Basically we have had two bad runs in the past two season and SB when the going got tough did not get going. So he may or may not be a good bloke, but he appears, after 2 seasons,to be a very average manager. Cos' of sales and loanees he has to rebuild the side again which IMHO is not good for progress. Realistically we have only the cups to play for, Europa League is not worth it financially plus lots of travel and if you do not have a big enough squad you struggle in the EPL. The players SB had brought in did not roll there sleeves up and get stuck in when the flow of the game went against us. Too often in the 2nd half we came out with heads down, spiritless , God knows what SB said at half time. It will be interesting to see what happens with the skunks now that Nolan (Barton) etc may leave they provided the teams backbone which frankly we lacked. Then of course players being played out of position, SB escaped criticism for this cos' of injuries but I personally consider this compounded the problems on the field. Also do not ask me about the wisdom of selling one of the EPLs leading goal scorers and not replacing him..a very poor judgement call, that does not auger well for the future. So we ended 10th..sold Hendo and have a pot of money to spend.. SB is our manager for next season or at least the start, which commences with 2 very tough games and the 3rd is against a promoted team so not easy either. So if 3 games in we are winless and pointless is Sir Naill and Mr Short going to be patient? Of course I would love SB to prove me wrong, I would really love to 'eat my shorts' it is just on past behaviour as a prediction for the future it does not look likely. Hey Ho onwards with the close season and lets see what team we field against Hendo, Miss Carol and Stevie G
The team Reidy put together is the best I have seen in all my time following the lads. By far. Those were heady days at the SOL. Not sure what happened in the end, we just seemed to implode. The club overall is a different beast these days. We have a owner with cash. We have a chairman second to none and in Bruce we have a Manager who is heading the rite way. The catalyst for last season was Bent. His leaving hurt Bruce personally which was good to see. It shows he cares. It also hurt the team. We will never know just how much but I recon we would have been far higher than 10th had it not been for that treacherous twat. This coming season SB gets another chance to show his metal. I think he'll deliver. I really do.
Cyprus - undoubtedly Bruce has a chance to show us his metal but to be fair to us who now have grave doubts, his metal as Sunderpitt pointed out has been less than impressive when we have imploded for 2 seasons running (3 for Bruce if you count the 2nd half slump under Wigan the season before he joined us). Its a theme that is dogging Bruce now and he needs to shake off the mantle of starting well but finishing seasons badly. Its a reputation that is starting to gather some pace. Reid's 3 or 4 seasons after the Charlton play off game were the best football team to wear red & white I have seen too, and maybe that style and excitement will never come back again but the fact that the best team i have ever seen were also relegated 2 years after finishing 7th should have everyone aware of saying 10th is good, especially when that 10th place was fluked totally by another teams demise not of our own volition.
While I completely understand your point Cest, the second half season collapse is a cause for concern. I can't help thinking that Bruce had very little control over proceedings and therefore it's a little harsh to blame him. First Bent. Bruce thought he had dealt with that little problem the first time he asked to leave but he knifed us anyway. Very little more Bruce could have done. Then the injuries kicked in, coupled with a horrendous run of fixtures that totally rocked team confidence and we never really recovered. In my view although the second half of the season was shambolic. There were very good reasons for our slump beyond Bruce's powers.
But that doesnt explain the previous seasons slump does it? We went 14 games without a win then as well? We did pick up draws so it wasnt as bad points wise. Also, Bruce had a disastrous period from February to May the season before that with Wigan as well so you see, its a trend not a blip? I know that Palacios and Heskey were sold that January as well and maybe he is just not able to cope with a plan B when things go wrong? One thing is for certain, you'll be as disappointed as me if we have another slump from Jan onwards and Bruce wont survive that one.
I know what ur saying mate but for me Bruce has a big say but not the only say when it comes to crucial decisons and tangibles that can affect the team throughout the season. Like you mentioned Palacios and Heskey were huge players for Wigan as was DB was for us, its one thing a top 6 team losing major players however the lower you go in the EPL the greater the effect and I doubt it was SB's choice to let them go therefore the Board/Owner/Chairman must take some responsibility. (tho obv it is his job to react/prepare for such loses no matter how abrupt they are). Also was it SB's fault re injuries last season or the trainers/medical staff who dealt with them day in day out? (tho for me he did bring them back too soon) Im not defending him totally and if youve read my previous posts ive already stated i dont believe him to be the man to take us to the next level, however for me he is not as culpable as some make him out and for the time being i would take stability over dramatic progress which some seem to desire/demand.
I don't really agree although I accept your opinion - bringing in Bent was a master stroke and had his plan been scuppered from forces outside his control then we would have finished higher than we did. Why did last season's dip happen? Possibly because of Bent, or injuries, or both...the fact is though, despite this slump, we finished a respectable 10th in the hardest league in the world, and look to be making some decent signings this summer. What I mean is by all means judge SB on his decisions but judging him on either Bent going or people being injured is unfair.
Brando - like many here, you are eager to explain last years slump and blame Bent leaving or injuries which are all valid reason but what about the season before last? 14 games without a win? And also what about the same slump at the same time the season before that? My argument is not that outside influences have not played a part in these slumps. Bruce has a decent Plan A and if it is working it looks good but if it is disrupted at all, es[ecially outside influences, he is totally ****ed as he doesnt have a Plan B to fall back on. Its happened 3 times now in 3 years, at exactly at the same time of the season as well. Thats down to the manager more than mere circumstance, as if he is that bloody unlucky we should ditch him now to save any further heartache. Like I say though, I've drawn the line under last season and its up to Bruce to show me why I placed so much faith in him 2 years ago in the coming few months.
