1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Grand Prix thread British 70th Anniversary Grand Prix 2020

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by ched999uk, Aug 7, 2020.

?

'3 wheels on my wagon' win for Lewis or someone else?

Poll closed Aug 8, 2020.
  1. Lewis '3 wheels on my wagon' Hamilton

    8 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. Valtteri 'I destroy tyres' Bottas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Sebastian 'just get me out of a Ferrari' Vettel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Charles Leclerc

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Max 'I will get fastest lap no matter what it costs' Verstappen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Alexander 'Time, I just need time' Albon

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Daniel 'Im getting this car there' Ricciardo

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Carlos 'Why did I sign with Ferrari' Sainz

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Lando 'How many can I get on last lap' Norris

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Any Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    Sorry a bit late but will this be another '3 wheels on my wagon' win for Lewis or is he going to give someone else a chance?

    7th August Practice 1 11:00 - 12:30
    7th August Practice 2 15:00 - 16:30
    8th August Practice 3 11:00 - 12:00
    8th August Qualifying 14:00 - 15:00
    9th August Race 14:10 - 16:10

    UK times
     
    #1
  2. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    Racing Point deducted 15 points for first race and fined €400000 fine. The also received repremand for other races!
    Seems weird to just get repremand for any other uses.

    Perez tested +ve so no race for him and maybe 10 days extra quarantine
     
    #2
    Number 1 Jasper likes this.
  3. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,143
    Likes Received:
    14,856
    But they can still use the brake ducts ?
     
    #3
  4. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    It would appear yes they can but they get a reprimand - so just get told not to do it again and again and again!!!!!
    Seems like Racing Point don't have a different design of brake duct that could be used without it being based on Merc brake duct knowledge!!!
    Dangerous precedent may have been set - brake the listed parts rule get a relatively little fine and lose 15 constructors points but gain points using the restricted parts for the rest of the season!!
    Another iffy FIA decision.......
     
    #4
    Number 1 Jasper likes this.
  5. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,143
    Likes Received:
    14,856
    It stinks to me , but nothing surprises me anymore .
     
    #5
    ched999uk likes this.
  6. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    Seems like it's the rear brake ducts that are the issue as RP didn't use Merc rear end last year. They did however get the cad drawings from merc in 2019 which was legal, they then modified the design to suit their car, being the 2029 Merc!
    FIA basically said new rear ducts were legal but punished as based on 2019 Merc ducts!

    Also it was only a sporting rule not a technical rule they broke! Surely rules are rules?
     
    #6
    Number 1 Jasper likes this.
  7. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    They could fine every team in the paddock with this rule imo, there's a reason they all look roughly the same, and it isn't coincidentally converging design paths.
     
    #7
    Number 1 Jasper and ched999uk like this.
  8. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    I
    I do wonder if that's why punishment seems lenient and its just a nod to the protest knowing that everyone does similar?
     
    #8
    Number 1 Jasper likes this.
  9. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,143
    Likes Received:
    14,856
    Surely perez must miss Spain ?
    The 10 day rule is definitely in effect now , or are their rules different ? I honestly don’t know .
     
    #9
  10. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    We have been chatting about that today. I think that UK rules only state that you have to quarantine for 7 (now 10) days after a +ve test. The weird bit is I don't believe 'normal' people in UK are tested at the end of their 7 or 10 day isolation period! So they would not test +ve again.
    The F1 personnel are tested regularly so can have multiple +ve tests. After the agro Racing Point had finding out if it was 7 or 10 days for Perez I bet it's going to be megga difficult to find out if he starts his 10 days again?

    It's an interesting one. UK laws vs F1 rules.... I wonder how low the F1 rules say the test needs to be to count as -ve. Seems like they have 3 statuses, eg 0-25 = -ve, 26-50 as undetermined, and above 51 as +ve?
     
    #10
    Number 1 Jasper likes this.

  11. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,665
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    Interestingly Mercedes apparently provided the designs after the last race of 2019, which means they had to know that Racing Point were going to using them to cheat on the 2020 design.
     
    #11
    ched999uk likes this.
  12. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    Until the FIA had given a ruling saying that you can't base your design on a competitors maybe Merc thought it was within the rules? In fact Merc have been cleared of any wrong doing, again by FIA!!!!! I don't think they would punish Merc though would they? Same way they avoided punishing Ferrari!! well publicly anyway.
     
    #12
    Number 1 Jasper likes this.
  13. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,143
    Likes Received:
    14,856
    Thing is though , it was PHE that agreed with RP that it was 7 not 10 days . FIA and F1 both felt the 10 day rule should apply .
     
    #13
    ched999uk likes this.
  14. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,143
    Likes Received:
    14,856
    I think Big Ern makes a valid point . It’s probably something that has gone on in one way or another , this is just a shot across everyone’s Boughs .
     
    #14
    ched999uk likes this.
  15. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,665
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    I'm not saying that they should be punished. They haven't broken any rules. They were allowed to sell the part at the time, but their buyer had no legal reason to want it and they surely knew that.
     
    #15
    ched999uk likes this.
  16. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    16,836
    Likes Received:
    5,767
    Not strictly true, from a reading of the ruling: https://www.fia.com/news/f1-renault-protest-decision

    Mercedes supplied CAD files, etc for both front and rear brake ducts at the end of 2018/early 2019.

    Racing Point then used the Mercedes design for their front brake ducts, and iterated on it throughout the 2019 season. The amount of design work put in by Racing Point over the season means the IP for the front brake ducts belongs to RP, and thus they're legal.

    Because the 2019 Racing Point used a different rake/aero philosophy at the rear of the car (compared to the Merc), the 2019 Rear Brake Ducts on the Racing Point were designed from scratch by Racing Point. Later on in the season, when Racing Point had settled on their copycat approach, they returned to the CAD for the rear brake ducts supplied by Mercedes much earlier on. Racing Point never ran a Merc-"inspired" Rear Brake Duct in 2019, and the changes they made for 2020 were deemed inconsequential. So the IP for the Rear Brake Ducts on the 2020 Racing Point lies with Mercedes, but when Mercedes supplied the CAD files there was no reasonable expectation that they were for 2020.
     
    #16
    ched999uk likes this.
  17. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    Well put.
     
    #17
  18. Mark Blow

    Mark Blow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,514
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    I’m going to Ireland on Sunday to work for 8 days. On the government website as Ireland is in the common travel area you don’t have to isolate on your return, just give your details as part of the track and trace. Unfortunately, as I work for a US company they have stipulated that all employees returning from an international trip have to self isolate for 14 days. The Yanks don’t have a clue.
     
    #18
    Number 1 Jasper and ched999uk like this.
  19. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    Sebs pu sounded bad, big clunk!
     
    #19
  20. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,701
    Likes Received:
    2,332
    That’s pretty catastrophic from Seb’s engine.
     
    #20

Share This Page