Afternoon all, It seems we've managed to get ourselves into a fine mess right now, and at the moment things are going round and round, and all that's really changed is that we've managed to between us all drive several members away. I'm going to start with an apology, when I first became mod I should have familiarised myself with our board rules more carefully, and I wasn't aware that there was a procedure we'd agreed to follow when things went awry. Sorry about that. Secondly, our rules have been unchanged since August 2011, and since then the make-up of our board has probably changed significantly, meaning rules that were agreed on by the members then, might not be now. To us, it seems perhaps these need refreshing. As mods, we should be laying down the law as the board has decided it, so I think it might be worth asking a few questions, canvassing opinions, and then writing a new set of rules. Once they're in place, Dave, Maestro and I will try our best to follow our end of it to the letter, and if everyone else could toe the line, that'd make our job a lot easier. As a rule we've been pretty lenient on here with bans, warnings, etc, hoping that common sense will prevail. It seems it hasn't done recently. We're not suggesting a return to BBC 606 style moderation, but perhaps we do need to be more active, the Newcastle board for example make much more frequent usage of temporary bans than we ever have. So, based on the last set of rules, some questions for you all to consider. It'd be greatly appreciated if everyone, no matter how often you post, or how new a member you are, could have their say. And if Irdan, Supers, Surgeryman (and no doubt others I've missed, sorry) are looking in, please add your two cents. Swearing: The swear filter (see bottom of your page if you weren't aware of it) should filter out most things if coarse language is something you'd like to avoid. As such I don't see the need to outright bans swearing. Your thoughts? Basic Standards/'Banter': Currently we don't allow "personal insults with particular regard to our human differences on gender, age, race, ethnicity, disability, sexual orientation; and religious and/or political beliefs" Would you like anything added to this list? For example, what are your thoughts on the incest/inbred insults that are often brought up, and other regional stereotypes? WUMs: How do you want us to treat WUM threads from both Norwich fans and other fans? Current policy is that we'd rather they were just ignored, but to let individuals reply as you see fit. However, we're to lock the thread if it becomes an insult war. Mods are then to also PM the OP, and in the case of 'outside' supports, their respective mods too. I don't know how many are aware, but "SingingBlue3", the Portsmouth WUM who appeared before the Southampton game, has been banned from the Norwich board, because it was far from his first offence elsewhere, and we wanted to nip it in the bud. Is this too hardline? General thoughts on WUM threads? Pictures/Videos: Rarely a problem, but we may as well be thorough about this. Currently posting anything of a sexual nature will result in a warning, and the offending post being removed. What are your thoughts on using the NSFW tags? Anything else we should be filtering out? [NSFW]Doomcaster's face?[/NSFW] Insults: In the wake of Supers-gate, where do you want us to draw the line when it comes to insults? Both in the context of full blown arguments, and in reasonably constructive debate? Locking Threads: Current policy is to lock any thread which degenerates into insults. Are there any more/fewer cases you'd want threads locked? Moderation Policy: As is stands our policy, which admittedly has not been fully implemented recently, is to warn those who overstep the mark by PM, explaining why we think they've gone too far. Currently, we're only meant to ban users who frequently WUM. Do people want some kind of 3 strikes and your out policy? What are your thoughts on temporary bans? Anything else you want to raise? THIS THREAD IS NOT TO BE A HUGE ARGUMENT Seriously. We've had enough of them recently. Let's stay on topic here, stay constructive, and hopefully we'll soon have a new set of rules for everyone to stick to, and a code for us mods to follow which everyone finds acceptable. For the most part, we're a good bunch on here, and before a couple of weeks ago I've never felt any of us mods have had to step in. Now we clearly have to, so I'd like us to have this conversation like grown-ups, draw a line under the current mess, and move on. Thanks, DHC
Swearing: I see no need for swearing to be moderated - as you have pointed out you can choose to avoid it. Let's be honest, many of us hear it all the time anyway. Basic Standards/'Banter': Again, I feel the current rules are suitable. We've managed to handle incest jokes this far just by calling them boring. WUMs: Let them come Pictures/Videos: I didn't see the handbag, but as long as the image is neither sexually explicit nor breaks any o our decency rules, I see no problem. Pictures overlaid with swear words should be tagged NSFW, certainly, so noone has to accidentally be offended. Insults: Doesn't bother me, in the form of a heated argument. It might weaken your point but that's about it, we all lash out. In terms of reasonably calm discussion, it may then become a more personal attack and be challenged, by request (from anyone), by a moderator. Locking Threads: If it's just mudslinging then yes, if there is remaining debate to be had then maybe ask the perpetrators to take it elsewhere Moderation Policy: It seems, then, that Dave instituted his own new warning system (see 'Closed Threads'). I have no problem with what was outlined there, being called out in public by a mod for inappropriate behaviour might sometimes just cool the situation.
[*]Swearing: The swear filter (see bottom of your page if you weren't aware of it) should filter out most things if coarse language is something you'd like to avoid. As such I don't see the need to outright bans swearing. Your thoughts? Swearing is fine. There's only one that I find too strong for here, and it was very rarely used up until a couple of days ago. [*]Basic Standards/'Banter': Currently we don't allow "personal insults with particular regard to our human differences on gender, age, race, ethnicity, disability, sexual orientation; and religious and/or political beliefs" Would you like anything added to this list? For example, what are your thoughts on the incest/inbred insults that are often brought up, and other regional stereotypes? Regional stereotypes are fine. We're football fans, so we're used to it. [*]WUMs: How do you want us to treat WUM threads from both Norwich fans and other fans? Current policy is that we'd rather they were just ignored, but to let individuals reply as you see fit. However, we're to lock the thread if it becomes an insult war. Mods are then to also PM the OP, and in the case of 'outside' supports, their respective mods too. I don't know how many are aware, but "SingingBlue3", the Portsmouth WUM who appeared before the Southampton game, has been banned from the Norwich board, because it was far from his first offence elsewhere, and we wanted to nip it in the bud. Is this too hardline? General thoughts on WUM threads? I think your current policy is fine. [*]Pictures/Videos: Rarely a problem, but we may as well be thorough about this. Currently posting anything of a sexual nature will result in a warning, and the offending post being removed. What are your thoughts on using the NSFW tags? Anything else we should be filtering out? I don't see why anything of a sexual nature should be posted on a football forum, so I personally wouldn't allow it (regardless of my feelings for Mr. Holt... <3) [*]Insults: In the wake of Supers-gate, where do you want us to draw the line when it comes to insults? Both in the context of full blown arguments, and in reasonably constructive debate? If anything becomes personal, it's gone too far. Supers went too far, but, IN MY OPINION, he talks more sense than anyone else on here, so it'd be sad if he didn't return. [*]Locking Threads: Current policy is to lock any thread which degenerates into insults. Are there any more/fewer cases you'd want threads locked? Good policy, never had a problem with it. [*]Moderation Policy: As is stands our policy, which admittedly has not been fully implemented recently, is to warn those who overstep the mark by PM, explaining why we think they've gone too far. Currently, we're only meant to ban users who frequently WUM. Do people want some kind of 3 strikes and your out policy? What are your thoughts on temporary bans? I think you need to start being more strict. Some people on here (and I'm not singling anyone out) are starting to get a little ridiculous and need both a slap on the wrist and a reality check. [*]Anything else you want to raise? I hope you can sort this, because if it stays the same I shan't be bothering with this board after the current season. That thread started by Dave has, IN MY OPINION, turned us all into a bit of a laughing stock. I have a feeling this will all blow over though. No idea why this has started up to be honest.
Quite frankly my dear I don't give a damn! I don't think I have ever insulted anyone and no one has insulted me.Probably because I am a boring stats/numbers freak.
Sensible set of proposals DH My thoughts for what they are worth Swearing - not a problem. If you don't like it turn the filter on Banter - whilst I do find the "carrot-crunchers"/"six-fingers" "sleeping with your sister" stuff pretty tedious I can't say that I go to bed sobbing about it I just wish they could come up with something original or funny. If I'm honest I am not above using the odd regional stereotype (in a light-hearted way) myself so those in glass houses etc. WUM's - don't care - sometimes worth a read sometimes not. I am sure we can all make up our minds. I would only advocate a ban if breaching house rules Insults - I don't think that there is an excuse for personal insults on a public forum. If you want to hurl abuse at someone at least do it to their face rather than hide behind a keyboard. I'd be happy to have any member abusing another on the forum banned for a week for the first offence and totally for the second IF the person being insulted complains. If a couple of members are happy to trade insults and not complain about it then I don't see the problem. It is only when someone feels bulllied or brow-beaten action is required. To pick a topical example if ILD is offended by Supers describing him as a popular part of the female anatomy then I think that would merit a 7 day ban. If ILD doesn't care I wouldn't do anything about it. People need to think about what they type and remeber that the purpose of the forum is not to be right all of the time and certainly not to abuse strangers with impunity and it also wouldn't kill people to apologise if they realise they have crossed the line. A sincere sorry or two would sort out most of the problems there seem to be on the board. Locking threads - proposal seems sensible Moderation - I think there should be a common sense over ride but if all three of our mods who appear to be reasonably sane and fair people think that someone has overstepped the mark repeatedly then I would have no problem with them banning members. Overall I think that it is a pity that things have got to a point where common sense no longer prevails and some people feel either victimised or isolated and so until this changes the mods will have to get more involved. I hope that normal service resumes shortly and that nobody feels that they have to quit the board as anyone leaving is a loss to the breadth of thought on the board.
Currently we don't allow "personal insults with particular regard to our human differences on gender, age, race, ethnicity, disability, sexual orientation; and religious and/or political beliefs" TBH, other than that, anything goes as far as I'm concerned. Everything else is just "water off a ducks back" to me
I think a more frequent use of temporary bans is a good idea. A warning, then if that warning has been ignored then a temporary ban, then if after that temporary ban they still persist then banned completely. I live by know your audience when it comes to swearing which I don't do much anyway. For example, it may be fine to swear around your mates but it's not fine to swear at someone of authority. But on here there are many posters who we don't know and guests, in that respect swearing should be avoided. The supers thing was exaggerated and brought to light simply because of a 'crying to your mummy' post. The poster maybe should have sent supers a PM or ignored it instead. Anyway swearing can be blocked as said above.
Dear oh dear - rather you than me DH. My initial thoughts were that most of the things mentioned have been legally clarified so if it's legal and allowed on other internet sites such as Twitter then there should be no problem. To try and get more detailed clarification would be a minefield. A picture that one person considers obscene is just considered tittilating by another person. Why not just stick to legality? What is swearing? Originally it was blasphemy - taking the Lords name in vain. Does anybody today consider bloody or bleeding swearing? One of my daughters is a deeply commited Christian - I blame her Mother!! She would never say ' Oh My God ' as it is taking the Lords name in vain as prohibited in the Bible but uses the 'F' word all the time - a man made word. When I was a kid words like pratt and twat refererred to female genitalia and were highly offensive. Today you hear them used widely in many contexts. I use these as just a few examples of the minefield you enter if you try and end up with rules that are too detailed.
i think this is fine DH, but like others have suggested, this has blown way out of all proportion. have you checked out the QPR or Man U boards recently? if they are shameless then we are the archers.
I think everything has been running ok. I think the mods are quite sensible and lets everything flow nicely without too much interference. Personally, I don't think Dave needed to open the thread about behaviour on the board, but understand he did so for the right reasons. Everyone can get carried away and if it looks like anyone is overstepping the mark, just make a post with a gentle reminder, using no names, within the thread or, if it escalates, a pm is the best way to calm the situation. As in all aspects of life, not all of us are always going to see eye to eye on everything. Can't see the need for sexual images on a football forum personally, but, as long as there is a warning, have no problem if other members would like to post / ogle.
I think rules need to apply everyone and punishment is consistent. Sorry to bring it up again, but example, i still don't really understand why Supers posts something far worse and instead of getting punished publicly or pointed out for it if gets sent a direct message. Irdan than gets warned publicly for suggesting favoritism which quite frankly isn't far wrong based on those incidents. There needs to be more consistency in my opinion. Also people should be allowed to swear, if someone doesn't like it put swear filter on. Anyway I've had my last say on it now, its boring me.
I personally have no problem with any of the rules that already exist and dont see much need for a change. We are all grown-ups and a bit of banter often adds to the enjoyment of a good debate and discussion, however i do agree that if it transends into abuse then maybe a warning should be issued. The trouble you have is where do you draw that line - one mans banter is anothers abuse, and to be honest when written on a computer can be completely misinterpreted as to how it was meant to be said. 99% of threads would be considered banter if they were spoken in a pub over a few pints. Swearing - I have no problem with swearing, it is some peoples way of expressing their passion or pain, there is the filter for those who are offended. Basic Standards/Banter - Covered in my paragraph above. WUMs - Not really bothered by them, find them quite funny at times and they deserve the abuse they get when they come to our board. Images - Not really bothered by this point, either way is good with me Insults - In a heated debate, insults can be thrown without any intention of abuse! Out of context insults and abuse are not needed but where are you supposed to draw the line if someone thinks a poster has gone too far?? Locking threads - I dont mind too much about locking threads i tend to just trawl through the ones that are being discussed most each day. Moderation Policy - Should be kept as it is, i dont see the need to ban our own fans for being passionate about their club and maybe overstepping the mark now and then. Temporary bans may just discourage people from returning which I'm sure is not what you want, it could also kill good debates as people dont feel they can voice their opinion as strongly as they would like
Basically don't see the need for changes or increased moderation... nobody has to read the threads after all and you can block people you don't want to hear from (so I understand, haven't done it myself!). Not sure the swear filter is fully effective though... the c word got through it on mine yesterday! not that I'm sensitive that way, just would rather not see it as its unnecessary imo.
By default the swear filter is off, so if you haven't activated it you'll still see things. However, if you have got it turned on, we could still be having problems with it. Mick (site owner) made some changes whilst changing servers a few weeks back, and as a result some functionality went a bit awry. It was also why we had double post problems. Whether anything can be done or not I don't know.
Where on Earth did that come from? The thread title was "A fair warning to all. Yes, this means you!" Where does that say carrabuh and Munky? That is the main problem of late, people are not reading the post properly, or are putting their own interpretation of what's been written!
Ive been called everything under the sun in my life ! No body on here is going to offend me in any way, i recently had a post deleted for a throw away comment on a certain rock star's sexual status, did i throw my toys out? No ! Take it and move on. I don't think it's been that bad up to now, but maybe ive missed somthing? As long as there's no really personal comments deliberately thrown at any-one i don't see what needs to change? Why over complicate things? imo.
Honestly? This is all seems a total waste of time and effort. It's a discussion forum about football, with the participants all supporters of the same club. It seems a rather odd thing to need any rules at all if you ask me. Which you did.
