If I remember correctly I think I said back on 606 that maybe he should have one more crack at the KG and then retire him and not to attempt another GC. That is still my opinion. I would hate to see him go for the GC. He is the sort of horse who will give, and give, and give, until he drops. Nichols said the horse will tell us when he is no longer interested but I sincerely hope that he and CS pre-empt that notification and spare us from the most miserable day of my racing experience. Kempton is his favourite track (I think) so I hope he has a good run there, enjoys himself and is then safely retired. If they decided to miss the KG and retire him I would be quite happy that he went out on a high.
Betfair Chase
- Thread starter Zenyatta
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I think it's really dangerous to start trying to call it Ron.
As Nicholls has said, the team at Ditcheat know the horse far better than anyone else, and I am sure they have a far greater depth of affection for him too. I think the most sensible thing is just to trust that they can make the right decision by the horse. I am sure that they can.
I am similarly uncomfortable with the suggestion that somehow retirement is the preferred option to racing for the horse. He clearly enjoyed his day at the races yesterday and he looked pleased as punch in the winners enclosure after the race. Who are we to say that the horse should be chucked out in a cold wet field for the rest of his days. Whilst he's enjoying it surely he's far better of doing what he loves, going racing. Any talk of retirement at the moment is rubbish as far as I'm concerned. The horse has shown that he has plenty left to offer, that he is still very near the top of the tree (arguably challenging for the top), and, most importantly, that he is enjoying himself.
He has already made a lot of people look ridiculously stupid after his performance yesterday so who is to say that he won't again.
As Nicholls has said, the team at Ditcheat know the horse far better than anyone else, and I am sure they have a far greater depth of affection for him too. I think the most sensible thing is just to trust that they can make the right decision by the horse. I am sure that they can.
I am similarly uncomfortable with the suggestion that somehow retirement is the preferred option to racing for the horse. He clearly enjoyed his day at the races yesterday and he looked pleased as punch in the winners enclosure after the race. Who are we to say that the horse should be chucked out in a cold wet field for the rest of his days. Whilst he's enjoying it surely he's far better of doing what he loves, going racing. Any talk of retirement at the moment is rubbish as far as I'm concerned. The horse has shown that he has plenty left to offer, that he is still very near the top of the tree (arguably challenging for the top), and, most importantly, that he is enjoying himself.
He has already made a lot of people look ridiculously stupid after his performance yesterday so who is to say that he won't again.
"Who are we to say that the horse should be chucked out in a cold wet field for the rest of his days."
Strange alternative Zen. Being allowed to graze and frolic in the sun and tucked up warm in his stable when it's cold/wet was what I had in mind - when the day comes.
Strange alternative Zen. Being allowed to graze and frolic in the sun and tucked up warm in his stable when it's cold/wet was what I had in mind - when the day comes.
He is competitive at the top level, but I can see where Ron is coming from. It would be a shame to see him bow out with a couple of bad runs. On yesterday's run though, his connections can't be slated for keeping him going. I think all concerned with the horse will keep a very close eye on him. The first sight of anything amiss, they'll probably pull the plug for good. The greed in me wants the horse to go on, I don't get to see an animal like him too often, so I want more. I'm addicted. But it would be nice to see him finish with that fantastic win as his finale, you probably won't get a better ending.
I mentioned in the Saturday daily thred when I put up Kauto as my selection that I had a feeling they might have come in with a 2 race plan at the flatter tracks of Haydock and Kempton, and I think it would be fitting for him to bow out at Kempton, the scene of all of his remarkable achievements.
The Gold Cup is a step too far I think.
The telling comment from Nicholls yesterday was "this was his Gold Cup", so I wonder if indeed they have simplified the season for him and got him ready to peak in November/December? They have not mentioned the Gold Cup for Kauto, but have been clear that Deman will do Lexus/Gold Cup only this year.
Personally I'd be fine if they retired him after this sensational win in the Betfair. If he is to run again, I hope he puts in a good performance at Kempton and is able to retire safe and sound. It's his sort of track where he still has enough cruising speed to run well, but I think his 12 year old legs by the time Cheltenham comes round, might struggle to outstay the likes of Long Run.
The Gold Cup is a step too far I think.
The telling comment from Nicholls yesterday was "this was his Gold Cup", so I wonder if indeed they have simplified the season for him and got him ready to peak in November/December? They have not mentioned the Gold Cup for Kauto, but have been clear that Deman will do Lexus/Gold Cup only this year.
Personally I'd be fine if they retired him after this sensational win in the Betfair. If he is to run again, I hope he puts in a good performance at Kempton and is able to retire safe and sound. It's his sort of track where he still has enough cruising speed to run well, but I think his 12 year old legs by the time Cheltenham comes round, might struggle to outstay the likes of Long Run.
He absolutely deserves a crack at the King George again - Kempton is where he has been at his imperious best and, without wanting to get into the jockey debate again, he is at his best with Ruby on his back. I'm not saying McCoy gave him a bad ride in the last King George, he felt he needed to ask the horse to do more down the back straight and to be fair the horse did respond. I do think it would have been a different story with Ruby on board though. Whereas McCoy drives and urges, Ruby coaxes and nurdles and I think Kauto Star responds better to the latter. The only reason I wouldn't let him run on the King George is if the ground came up heavy. If they get good-soft or better and PN can get Kauto Star in the same shape as he was yesterday (and I see no reason why he shouldn't - yesterday's efforts would not have been as gruelling as a Gold Cup, which I have never felt to be Kauto Star's optimum race - he has won it twice despite the course and distance, rather than because of them) then for me he will take all the beating.
Ron, he is out in the field with his good pal Denman throughout the summer months anyway. Whilst he's standing in his box in the wind and rain of the winter he might as well be trained so he can enjoy a day out at the races and the plaudits of his adoring public.
The much more fundamental issue is that, whilst we are entitled to our opinions, I think it is important that we let connections make the decision themselves. They know the horse better than us, and we must trust them to make the right call. I don't think it helps if the racing public starts imposing their own thoughts on the matter. It doesn't achieve anything and it doesn't allow connections to make the best decision.
Edit: I suppose what I am saying is that we are entitled to say we 'would' do with the horse if he were ours, but that it is dangerous to start saying what connections 'should' do. Perhaps a minor difference, but an important one nonetheless.
The much more fundamental issue is that, whilst we are entitled to our opinions, I think it is important that we let connections make the decision themselves. They know the horse better than us, and we must trust them to make the right call. I don't think it helps if the racing public starts imposing their own thoughts on the matter. It doesn't achieve anything and it doesn't allow connections to make the best decision.
Edit: I suppose what I am saying is that we are entitled to say we 'would' do with the horse if he were ours, but that it is dangerous to start saying what connections 'should' do. Perhaps a minor difference, but an important one nonetheless.
what a brilliant bounce back!
normally i'm really nervous watching kauto star but i got less and less nervous as the race went on until i thought 'he can win this'. and even when ruby was making more urging moves than back in the day when he could sit still for the most part, kauto still didn't make horrible mistakes and instead he ploughed on regardless like he knew what he was doing all the way through. and after three or four replays i still can't work out how he managed to jump the last so bigly.
maybe it was the camera angle but it seemed to me kauto jumped slightly differently than he used to, giving the fences a bit more vertical room. but he was still very accurate on landing whereas the others all looked scattered and messy at points.
ok there were other horses in the race but they all dropped back except for long run who made mistakes and then stayed behind. it was the best betfair chase i've seen, even including the other ones kauto was in. i have to say credit to paul nicholls for bringing him back in such good shape. and ruby's tactics were an indication right from the start, to me anyway, it wasn't a long run foregone conclusion.
thrilling stuff.
normally i'm really nervous watching kauto star but i got less and less nervous as the race went on until i thought 'he can win this'. and even when ruby was making more urging moves than back in the day when he could sit still for the most part, kauto still didn't make horrible mistakes and instead he ploughed on regardless like he knew what he was doing all the way through. and after three or four replays i still can't work out how he managed to jump the last so bigly.
maybe it was the camera angle but it seemed to me kauto jumped slightly differently than he used to, giving the fences a bit more vertical room. but he was still very accurate on landing whereas the others all looked scattered and messy at points.
ok there were other horses in the race but they all dropped back except for long run who made mistakes and then stayed behind. it was the best betfair chase i've seen, even including the other ones kauto was in. i have to say credit to paul nicholls for bringing him back in such good shape. and ruby's tactics were an indication right from the start, to me anyway, it wasn't a long run foregone conclusion.
thrilling stuff.
Very few of the past greats have ever gone out on a high, Arkle broke his leg, Dessie fell at the age of 13 in the Kimg George when well beaten, and Best Mate had a heart attack.
It's the same with most sporting greats, they tend to go on until they are well past there best, as there is to much of a temptation to carry on if you are still at the top. I'd imagine Kauto Star will be the same, connections won't want to retire him now as they will always be wondering, what if he could have won a 5th KG, or what if he could have won a 3rd Gold Cup. Did we retire him to soon?
I don't think a 5th KG is an impossible task, though he would be 3rd in my pecking order. I do believe though that it would take a minor miracle for him to win another Gold Cup, I just can't be having a 12yo in that race
It's the same with most sporting greats, they tend to go on until they are well past there best, as there is to much of a temptation to carry on if you are still at the top. I'd imagine Kauto Star will be the same, connections won't want to retire him now as they will always be wondering, what if he could have won a 5th KG, or what if he could have won a 3rd Gold Cup. Did we retire him to soon?
I don't think a 5th KG is an impossible task, though he would be 3rd in my pecking order. I do believe though that it would take a minor miracle for him to win another Gold Cup, I just can't be having a 12yo in that race
This racing forum is one of the friendliest I've come across, but as we're all adults with our own set ideas, sometimes we can fall into a "friendly" punch up or two. Sometimes though, certain things happen that get us all on the same page. Deep in our hearts, all of us wanted Kauto Star to put in a blinder, but most of us, quite rightly found a whole lot of reasons for not sticking our cash on him. All of this means nothing. What Kauto Star did in the Betfair Chase transcends all form debate, it takes us to a level of involvement, the likes of which we seldom experience. Away from the race itself, the one thing that's filled me with warmth, is the adulation heaped on the horse by everyone on this forum. Kauto Star and animals like him are good for society at large, for they have the ability to bond large masses of humanity together in a common theme. We can see that on this thread. There isn't one among us who wasn't thrilled to see the Champion once again fulfill a racing fan's dream.
Was a stunning performance by Kauto Star at the weekend although as we all know Long Run will have ‘bigger fish to fry’ this season than the Betfair Chase. My own personal opinion of where Kauto goes from here is that, providing he stays sound, he will have 2 more races in his career – the King George VI on St Stephen’s Day and then he will bid ‘adieu’ in the Ryanair Chase at the Festival (although a part of me thinks, just possibly, it could be in the Champion Chase).
There was, by the way, an outstanding piece of sportsmanship displayed after the Betfair on Saturday as Mr Henderson was the first to congratulate connections after the win. He even took his old trilby off to do so which makes the congratulations even more special.
Weird Al quite surprised me with his gutsy display in 3rd, and if a couple under perform in the CGC, then he could be up to placing in that heat but both Diamond Harry and Time For Rupert disappointed. I think one of the most important things that the contest told us is that this pair are not up to winning at steeplechasings ‘top table’.
There was, by the way, an outstanding piece of sportsmanship displayed after the Betfair on Saturday as Mr Henderson was the first to congratulate connections after the win. He even took his old trilby off to do so which makes the congratulations even more special.
Weird Al quite surprised me with his gutsy display in 3rd, and if a couple under perform in the CGC, then he could be up to placing in that heat but both Diamond Harry and Time For Rupert disappointed. I think one of the most important things that the contest told us is that this pair are not up to winning at steeplechasings ‘top table’.