Evening all, Back in from the Cottage and feeling considerably more up beat. Felt we did enough to nick the result but happy with a draw against a talented team with a very solid centre back. For a good chunk of the first half we played some really impressive football. The movement from the front 4 was great. AJ was holding his position in the middle and causing some major issues for their defence. Dembele, Dempsey and Kasami looked like they were relishing each others movement. There was a cohesion between them that can give us real hope. Good work from AJ for the goal, taking a gamble and it paid off. I thought Sidders had great game and Briggs looked as impressive as ever. The only negative for me was the substitutions. AJ had the measure of the centre backs and was causing big problems, although he did miss an absolute sitter. BZ looked like he did not want to be there. Kasami was tearing the place up, his determination and eagerness was driving us forward. So why then bring on Duff ? All the drive in the team that looked like we would score disappeared. As for Senderos, the guy is not good enough, again pointless substitution. Really happy with alot of the play and I would have taken a point against Twente before the game so good result. I think we could of nicked it if Kasami and AJ had stayed on.
Fair point Bidley. Just felt that the ground was rocking before the subs were made and then the place went flat. What is does show though is that if we are going to play total football and have our front 4 interchanging, it is far more effective when done at pace, as shown in the first half. When BZ and Duff came on the whole tempo slowed down. BTW did anyone else hear some booing after the final whistle ? Seemed a bit harsh and unnecessary. COYW
Froggie. I think the booing was total frustration. From where I sat in the riverside stand,the mass feeling around me was this team does not appear competent enough to hold its place in the premiership,we lacked that cut and thrust so evident in our last campaign,and must not base our optimism on our results against the Europa teams we have met. The general consensus was this team does not appear to gel in any way,so the gloomy outlook from many of our fans,was voiced mainly from the Hammy end. Apart from a well taken goal by AJ,and some tireless work by Dembele,Dempsey Swartz,not much could be said for the effort others put in. especially Sender ~loss. Still I think we will all have a clearer picture by the end of October.
Morning Rosca, Not too sure I agree with the lack of cut and thrust last night. I felt that for large portions of the game our posession play was noticably better than sunday. The movement all over the pitch showed that the players are beginning to get Jol's tactics. The front 4, particularly Demps, Dembele and Kasami, showed that they could interchange position well. I thought Kasami was excellent as was Sidwell. The big difference last night was that they had the space to operate in, Blackburn pulled so many people back on sunday and shut us out. I hope that we can take this to the prem, but agree it is going to be a hard task. We have to move forward as a club, and that means changing personnel and tactics under a new manager, it is going to take time, so booing is is not going to help anyone.
Oh how the mighty have fallen! We deserved a point from the game, but I can't help think of what we'd have done to FC Twente two years ago when Roy was at the helm. I watched the game on TV and agree that things slowed down when BZ and Duff came on. As AJ was coming off, the camera got in close and he didn't look happy at all. I wasn't too happy either. I thought he was good and his pace helped open up the pitch, giving our midfielders freedom to run. As soon as BZ came on, it's like the entire pitch was compressed and the movement ground to a halt. I'm not blaming BZ, but I saw what I saw. And Dembele needs to dribble with his head up. We still have defender problems. Baird and Hangeland were excellent, but a couple of times Briggs got too far forward and was caught out on counter attacks. Grygera looked a little slow, getting burned down the sideline a couple of time early, but he adjusted later. Watched the game wondering if we'd picked up the wrong player from FC Twente - that kid Douglas is some player. Imagine him standing next to Hangeland at the back! Twin towers of death.
Morning Gents, I think Frogster is right, the team are coming together under Jol's tactics, and it's showing. What is nice is that we have a Plan B, too. Lots of positives to take away from today, and the booing is unnecessary. DR, Roy's team would've been far more convincing, but then you'd expect that from a settled side like that was
A few will disagree but I think that it started to slow as soon as AJ went off, I know a lot of us don't think he's up for it but he proved me wrong last night. I really think he was the main difference in that first half.
I watched on TV as well, and thought this was a decent performance albeit one that wasn't sustained for the whole 90 minutes. I liked the look of Grygera and hope that he gets a run in the side at right back now. Briggs had a good game as well as the others mentioned above. I don't know about Bobby looking disinterested, but we did look better before the substitutions. Interestingly, Graham Taylor made the point that what changed for Fulham after AJ went off was that there was no one up front who was really working the channels. If I'm understanding him correctly, he was saying that we would have done better if Bobby had done exactly the opposite of what many on this board have been saying - Taylor wanted him to go wide more often rather than remain stationed in the centre. Not that I'm saying Taylor always knows what he's talking about (the memory of England in the 90s is still to strong for that to be taken for granted), but it's an interesting point. Was that the problem after the substitutions, or is it a coincidence that we didn't look as good once the channel runner was replaced by the central target man? Opinions, please.
Strange how two people watching a game from different places can have different opinions of a game, talking to a mate after he was a bit despondent of Jols tactics, where as I thought Fulham played well after the first 10 mins, finding their passing game, again it was not taking the chances that cost us a win. I think Twente's tactics were to harass and go for it in the first and last 15 minutes to see if they could get something from the game and in between hit us on the break. This dictated when we were at our best. Thought most players had a good game. The subs did seem to slow things down, the Twente back four must have been relieved as they only had Zamora to handle as the others seemed to drop back into a supporting role, rather than interchange positions as before. I've said it before, Dembele reminds me so much of Steed when he first came to us, head down, running round in pretty patterns, but getting nowhere. Someone has to train him to look up and when to release the ball. Its's so frustrating but we have to stick with him and give him encouragement, then we'll have another great player on our hands. Agree Douglas was their class player, and their keeper put in some good saves to frustrate us.
Captain, I think runners create space on the pitch while holders commpress space. AJ is a runner. Last night (and every night) he ran into the channels to receive the ball, each time taking a defender or two with him which has the effect of spreading out the pitch for our players. Even when AJ received the ball in the middle, he'd run it outside to the flanks looking to create space enough to put in a cross, and each time he did that he took a defender with him. So with AJ on the pitch there was more freedom of movement. Bobby, on the other hand, is a holder. He takes up a position just outside the box and when he receives the ball, protects it until our midfielders (and their midfielders) join the party. While that's often good for us, facilitiating the link-up play, it also had the effect of crowding the final third. That's why (IMO) things slowed down when he arrived. And that's why I think we need both a runner and a holder up front. We need a pace player to run the gaps and create space, but we also need a holder to make connections. _______________________________ The thing McBride used to do so effectively where those little flicks and one-touch passes to the runners on either side of him. He was a target man, but he rarely held the ball for more than a second; he was quick to distribute, spin and find some open space again. He was a holder, but he didn't doddle on the ball. The game kept flowing around him. I think a lot of this comes down to timing. When a player receives a pass, his nearby teammates will take off and find some free space. But that free space is only there for a moment while the defender catches up. So if the pass doesn't arrive on time, the moment is lost. That's the thing Murphy,Sidwell and Dempsey understand; and the thing that frustrates me about Dembele. When Dempsey, Sidwell and Murphy get the ball, their first impulse is to find an open, moving teammate. If they don't see one, they'll dribble a little and create a better angle from which to pass. Dembele, on the other hand, receives the ball with his head down, dribbles with his head down and then when our runners have finally given up trying to find free space, he starts dribbling again. Nobody slowed down the action like Dembele.
Good to read the different views, particularly the positive ones because I've been feeling a bit down since the game (didn't even feel like going for a drink afterwards which really is saying something!) I think that part of the problem is that whilst there were a lot of good individual performances (AJ and Briggs being 2 of the best) we don't seem to be clicking as a team under Jol which is odd when the bulk of the team have been playing together for some years now. Having said that I do appreciate that we need more time and we may well have seen a dramatic improvement by this time next month. Totally agree with what everyone else has said about subs - I can only think that Jol decided to settle for the draw (which is not a bad result in itself) and made the subs with an eye to who he wants to play on Sunday.
Good analysis, DR. The big question is whether Dembele - as SuperBrian suggest - can be trained out of his tendency to miss the right pass at the right time. Pat Nevin had some interesting analysis at half time (I'm guessing you weren't watching Channel 5 over in Germany), pointing out how a striker would have been looking to charge into the box as we attacked, but Dembele was casually sauntering forward on several occasions. Nevin's points - which many here have said before - is that Dembele would be better used as a winger rather than as a striker. He comes alive when he gets to run at people, and he doesn't seem to have a striker's instinct for taking up dangerous positions. I think I'd rather see (from left to right) Duff, Dempsey, Ruiz as our attacking support to Bobby, but if Dembele is going to play he should be on the wing rather than in the centre.
I don't know what to think of Dembele these days. I've been a supporter and defender of his for a year now and I'm getting tired of the disappointment. How could a man with such exquisit control and creativity be so ineffective? Remember those games of three-touch we all played? Receive the ball, adjust and pass ... that's what Jol needs to do with Dembele. He should be playing three-touch games with the reserves until he's cured of this disease.
Just watched my CH5 recording of the game. Some good points on both Martin Jol tactics about how it will take time and Dembele on that he has to look up to see a pass by Pat Nevin. Think Stanley Victor Collymore is right that the players still have to buy into the more open play of Jols, as there will be players who have been there the 3 or 4 years and will be sceptical until the results change. Noticed the Twente manager didn't stay to shake Jols hand after he had the 4th officals, so some animosity there then from his Dutch days.
I don't think it helps him being here under two managers already. Once Jol has assigned him a niche in the squad I'm sure he'll start to produce results. He's only 24, so time is on his side.
Demps I think you have nailed it. AJ's movement does open up the space for the 3 behind him. If we are going to persist with the movement up front then this space may become an essential. The question is: can BZ run those channels as AJ does. With Ruiz coming into the fray, competition for those positions will be rife, so Dembele will have to work hard. I am not sure he is totally fit yet. His movement in the first 60 mins was excellent, just lacking the final ball, after 60 mins though he seemed to tire drastically. Does anyone else think that Kasami could be better than Duff on the right hand side ? I was so impressed by his fitness, his tackling and his marauding movement up front. Add to that equation he scores goals for Switzerland, for me he should be getting prem time.
Agree we put in a decent performance, certainly for 75mins. As these highlights show - http://http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl47eq_fulham-vs-fc-twente-1-1-goals-highlights-15-09-2011-fulham-1-1-fc-twente_sport Pity about Aj's missed sitter though. That, I think would have sealed the game. Yes, things went flat in the last 15 mins but I'm not sure I agree it was down to bringing on Bobby and Duffers. IMHO it was much more to do with not subbing Murphy - his legs had gone. A guy two seats along made a telling point before the substitutions, "What is it he manager can't see?". And anyway Kasami should have stayed on. For some reason Dempsey and Sidwell (what on earth was he doing just standing motionless, not once but twice. with ball in the middle of his own half) fell back. Consequently Twente had a period of well over 5 minutes of total posession and, I won't say heads fell, but we just couldn't then lift our game. I guess that's when Jol decided to save the point and bring Senderos on. Still a bit weird though, given that Senderos was ailing and he moved 3 of the 4 back four around. Give Twente credit though, they're no mugs; intelligent, mature in Europe and use the ball well. So we're still well in there and of course moved our unbeaten home run in Europe forward to 21 - a record not even Man U can match. A tad regretably, I have to also reflect on our 'lack of cutting edge' however. We never really troubled their keeper, who looked dodgy early on. Borne out by the inevitable stats - only 4 efforts on target, including the goal and 9 wide of the mark (and I'd suggest that's generous). There was more willingness to have a pop and often the ball just didn't break for us. But as (was it Jimmy Greaves) said you have to make your own luck. Perhaps that's the problem with too few players reading the game and/or harrassing the opposition so that they make mistakes.
At times we played very well but the team is still to find tempo and gel together. Murphy should have been replaced. We need to start picking points. Too early to panic but can see us bottom this weekend!
