Ask PN - November 2011

Any questions for Princess during November?


Index to all other Ask PN threads

 

Thanks for the new thread Ron!

 

Hi PN.

Do you know if Sequence,scheduled to run tomorrow,was a gift from the Aga Khan to the Queen.

 

I don't know for certain Dexter, but it looks to be the case. She certainly hasn't passed through the sale ring.

 

He definitely gave her one.

 

Hi PN, I was just wondering wether there had been any future plans made for Workforce, as Id assume he is going to stud this year.

Also there is usually alot of discussion about keeping Derby winners in training as 4yos, and most owners retire them, through fear of defeat or injury. How much do you think Workforce's unsuccessful 4yo campaign has affected his fee. Surely it must have damaged it considerably.

I know this is pretty irrelevant as KA is loaded, but just to get an idea of the long term financial risks a Derby winning owner would be taking, racing on at 4

 

PN - would you have access to any info relating to the Plumpton meeting on Mon 14 Nov ?
The racecourse website boast that it's the biggest Monday prizemoney meeting in their calendar (sponsored by Spinal Research) but I can't find any race schedules.
I wanted to know race times/distances and whether there might be a few half decent sorts going ?
Many Thanks

 

I have not heard for certain that Workforce has been retired, though I would imagine he will be simply because the Juddmonte stallion roster is going to have several new additions over the next few years and it makes little sense to have them all arriving at once!

Althought Workforce hasn't had the greatest year, he has finished 2nd in 2 G1s which is not bad going! Of course wins would have increased his value further but you can't say that 4 wins and 3 2nds from only 9 starts is a "bad" record.

Had he won again at G1 level this year I'd have expected his fee to be set at around the £40,000 mark (other recent Derby winners had their first fees set at £25k, £30k and €85k). I now think it is likely to be about £25k, perhaps a little lower.

You are right in that keeping a derby winner in training at 4 is a risky gamble, it is understandable why so many are retired at the end of their 3yo season. Prince Khalid is a sporting man, as evidenced by his keeping so many good horses in training, and I am sure he gains much pleasure from seeing them continue to run, regardless of whether they are beaten or not.


Grizzly, I can get the info re Plumpton. I'll dig it out and post it a little later.

 

This to me puts a big question mark over calling any horse, however good, one of the greats if it is retired at 3. If it is forced into retirement through injury, that's different; but to retire them because defeat can't be risked really says it all.

 

Grizzly, the info you require, though times are subject to change:

Plumpton 14th November

1pm The Cloudesley Marsham Memorial Novices’ Hurdle Race (Class 4)
2miles for novice 4yos+. £3,900

1.30pm The theatlantic4.com Novices’ Steeple Chase (Class 3)
2m4f for novice 4yo+. £10,000

2pm The Cenkos Guernsey Supports Spinal Research ‘National Hunt’ Novices’ Hurdle Race (Class 4)
2m5f for novice 4yo+ which have not run in a Flat race. £3,900

2.30pm The Cenkos Fund Managers Atlantic4 Handicap Steeple Chase (Class 4)
2m4f for 4yo+ rated 0-120. £8,500

3pm The Spinal Research Albert Davison Conspiracy Handicap Hurdle Race (Class 5)
2m2f for 4yo+ rated 0-100. £2,600

3.30pm The Cenkos Jersey 3000 Miles to Go Novices’ Handicap Steeple Chase (Class 5)
3m2f for novice 4yo+ rated 0-100

4pm The Mandeville Paralympics Mascot Standard National Hunt Flat Race (Class 6)
2m2f for 4, 5 & 6yos which have not run under any recognised Rules of Racing, except National Hunt Flat races, Irish National Hunt races or French AQPS Flat races. £2,100.

 

Great stuff PN, many thanks.

 

Thanks Princess.

 

If anyone is interested I've put up a thread for the Return of Mares 2011 which has just come out. I've included a full run down of all the foals by SEA THE STARS.

 

Oddy, I've just loaded Presenting's data into MS Access and done a bit of analysis

He has sired 893 under NH. (581 with no wins and 353 with no winnings)
20 have won over £100k
7 of those over £200k and 3 of those over £500k

149 have an RPR of over 120
of those 48 have an RPR over 140
of those 22 have an RPR over 150
of those 7 have an RPR over 160

Those over 150:
RPR.....................Winnings
184 Denman £1,141,347
173 War Of Attrition £741,257
170 Woolcombe Folly £10,166
168 Turpin Green £204,154
165 Weapon´s Amnesty £216,848
164 Ballabriggs £608,115
163 Jered £14,958
160 China Rock £122,679
160 Herecomesthetruth £129,617
159 Joaaci £49,451
159 Dunguib £210,389
156 Jessies Dream £123,166
156 Horner Woods £59,787
155 Killyglen £93,375
155 Whatuthink £134,372
154 Another Promise £99,593
154 Niche Market £257,806
153 King Troy £59,152
153 Silverburn £108,341
152 Our Ben £121,997
151 Tavern Times £47,762
151 First Lieutenant £160,855

 

Bit more analysis of Presenting:

The first line shows that 86 of the horses sired by Presenting were out of a mare sired by Strong Gale and between them they amassed 76 wins. The average RPR of those 86 is 97 and the highest RPR of those is 170

Here is the list (please excuse the non alignment)


Count DAM'S SIRE WINS Avg RPR Max RPR
86 Strong Gale 76 97 170
46 Phardante 47 96 163
38 Supreme Leader 32 98 153
35 Be My Native 50 99 152
30 Good Thyne 33 95 173
23 Roselier 42 107 160
21 Mandalus 19 88 129
20 Buckskin 29 104 168
17 Deep Run 15 98 150
17 King´s Ride 14 94 124
16 Le Moss 11 94 131
14 Brush Aside 21 106 159
14 Executive Perk 15 100 145
12 Over The River 8 93 156
11 Pollerton 25 98 184
11 Orchestra 15 110 155
10 Glacial Storm 5 99 117
10 Montelimar 8 100 129
10 Lafontaine 25 117 146
9 The Parson 9 91 137
9 Callernish 2 88 129
9 Crash Course 4 98 116
8 Bob Back 12 94 145
7 Torus 7 109 160
6 Furry Glen 4 82 119
6 Decent Fellow 2 73 110
6 Commanche Run 5 90 125
5 Royal Fountain 4 101 125
5 Oats 9 79 127
5 Teenoso 5 112 123
5 Kemal 2 100 105
5 Dalsaan 4 94 120
5 Carlingford Castle 3 104 117
5 Broken Hearted 7 109 146
5 Mister Lord 3 107 127

Count DAM'S SIRE WINS Avg RPR Max RPR
5 Town And Country 4 90 116
4 Pragmatic 1 67 99
4 Moscow Society 2 97 124
4 Le Bavard 0 88 102
4 Lancastrian 7 108 139
4 Kambalda 0 50 86
4 Green Shoon 10 84 137
4 Bob´s Return 0 81 104
4 Black Minstrel 3 85 111
4 Jurado 5 127 154
4 Shernazar 0 93 103
3 Idiots Delight 5 105 139
3 Bold Owl 3 110 117
3 Pennine Walk 1 89 103
3 Persian Mews 7 114 137
3 Yashgan 1 96 100
3 Topanoora 5 94 137
3 Denel 11 112 116
3 Ardross 5 114 119
3 Un Desperado 0 95 104
3 Electric 4 118 118
3 Lord Ha Ha 2 102 124
3 Damsire Unregistered 2 87 93
3 Husyan 2 100 122
3 Accordion 0 95 102
3 Little Bighorn 10 126 164
3 Remainder Man 0 58 88
3 Satco 1 77 93
3 Cheval 1 81 110
2 Buckley 2 109 125
2 Derrylin 2 102 125
2 Desert Style 0 79 103
2 Stalker 2 96 113
2 Netherkelly 1 94 94
2

Count DAM'S SIRE WINS Avg RPR Max RPR
2 Sheer Grit 0 34 67
2 Torenaga 0 87 95
2 Northern Fashion 1 107 125
2 Toulon 1 117 123
2 Last Fandango 0 88 107
2 Welsh Pageant 0 96 99
2 Henbit 0 88 107
2 Tidaro 0 89 91
2 Crested Lark 1 86 97
2 Le Glorieux 6 132 144
2 Shy Groom 3 89 109
2 Yaheeb 5 127 145
2 Capitano 0 83 92
2 Cardinal Flower 0 66 76
2 Daring March 1 96 114
2 Jolly Jake 0 106 114
2 Celio Rufo 0 97 97
2 Neltino 0 89 94
2 Fourstars Allstar 11 147 151
2 Sayyaf 0 83 84
2 Religiously 0 102 109
2 Alphabatim 3 96 128
2 Garryowen 0 31 31
2 Shalford 4 114 116
2 Proverb 4 97 101
2 Quayside 0 70 94
2 Avocat 2 102 112
2 Radical 1 98 98
2 Architect 2 109 115
2 Ela-Mana-Mou 9 89 148
2 Anshan 0 107 111
2 Fidel 4 121 133
2 Regular Guy 0 59 96
2 Old Vic 5 125 165
2 Panoramic 5 120 124

Count DAM'S SIRE WINS Avg RPR Max RPR
2 Beneficial 1 99 109
2 Air Display 0 17 17
2 Roman Warrior 0 82 82
2 Exhibitioner 1 100 101
2 Duky 0 67 82
2 Efisio 0 64 81
2 Al Sirat I 0 102 117
2 Seamanship 1 74 126
2 Beau Sher 4 126 126
2 Perugino 3 106 137
2 Petoski 0 95 110
2 Seymour Hicks 0 95 109
2 Batshoof 0 103 111
2 Balliol 0 102 104
1 Vaguely Pleasant 0 95 95
1 Val De L´Orne 0 108 108
1 Eurobus 0 85 85
1 Croghan Hill 0 83 83
1 Eurodeal 0 111 111
1 Darazari 1 112 112
1 Tug Of War 0 52 52
1 El Conquistador 0 87 87
1 Derring Rose 0 0 0
1 Durgam 8 159 159
1 Distant Relative 0 35 35
1 Double Trigger 0 104 104
1 Dr Massini 0 104 104
1 Common Grounds 0 90 90
1 Dry Dock 0 63 63
1 Definite Article 0 103 103
1 Ashford 1 93 93
1 Cadoudal 2 117 117
1 Boreen 0 111 111
1 Windjammer 0 89 89
1 Ya Zaman 0 94 94

Count DAM'S SIRE WINS Avg RPR Max RPR
1 Bluebird 1 114 114
1 Belmez 0 43 43
1 Belfalas 0 96 96
1 Brief Truce 1 96 96
1 Assert 0 93 93
1 Welsh Term 0 93 93
1 Aristocracy 0 97 97
1 Arctic Lord 0 64 64
1 Arapahos 0 101 101
1 Arapaho 1 108 108
1 Amoristic 0 42 42
1 Alzao 0 57 57
1 Altountash 2 132 132
1 Al Hareb 1 95 95
1 Baron Blakeney 0 100 100
1 Caribo 0 86 86
1 Comedy Star 4 143 143
1 Classic Cliche 0 92 92
1 Chromite 0 113 113
1 Charlaw 0 97 97
1 Celtic Cone 0 74 74
1 Cataldi 0 73 73
1 Castle Keep 2 129 129
1 Bowling Pin 0 99 99
1 Warpath 2 98 98
1 Villez 1 92 92
1 Candy Cane 0 96 96
1 Camden Town 3 123 123
1 Wauthi 0 72 72
1 Exactly Sharp 0 0 0
1 Bustino 1 94 94
1 Burslem 0 86 86
1 Bulldozer 0 95 95
1 Welsh Saint 1 83 83
1 Carroll House 0 75 75

Count DAM'S SIRE WINS Avg RPR Max RPR
1 Northern Crystal 5 148 148
1 Hatim 6 100 100
1 Pampabird 0 80 80
1 Paean 0 93 93
1 Overbury 0 98 98
1 Ore 0
1 Shardari 1 121 121
1 Shareef Dancer 0 70 70
1 Nucleon 0 78 78
1 Petorius 0 91 91
1 Northern Guest 0 105 105
1 Pistolet Bleu 0 84 84
1 Noblequest 1 95 95
1 No Argument 3 99 99
1 Nikos 0 92 92
1 Night Shift 0 88 88
1 Neshad 1 105 105
1 Nashamaa 0 90 90
1 Montekin 0 99 99
1 Monksfield 0
1 Miner´s Lamp 0 54 54
1 Northfields 0 85 85
1 Rainbows For Life 1 105 105
1 Saddlers´ Hall 0 81 81
1 Rontino 5 125 125
1 Roi Guillaume 0
1 Rising 3 125 125
1 Riot Helmet 0 0 0
1 Reprimand 1 122 122
1 Relkino 0 55 55
1 Rashar 0 54 54
1 Pas De Seul 0 54 54
1 Raise You Ten 0 83 83
1 Mazaad 0 105 105
1 Rahotep 1 92 92

Count DAM'S SIRE WINS Avg RPR Max RPR
1 Quisling 0 63 63
1 Pry 0 94 94
1 Project Manager 0 79 79
1 Priamos 0 60 60
1 Precocious 0 91 91
1 Posen 2 112 112
1 Pitskelly 0 82 82
1 Pitpan 2 110 110
1 Random Shot 0 58 58
1 Glenstal 4 105 105
1 Jeu De Paille 0 82 82
1 Indian Ridge 0 81 81
1 In The Wings 0 32 32
1 Houmayoun 0 100 100
1 Homo Sapien 0 80 80
1 Homing 0 85 85
1 Royal Vulcan 0 90 90
1 He Loves Me 4 142 142
1 Meneval 0 34 34
1 Glint Of Gold 0 82 82
1 Terimon 0 105 105
1 Girandole 7 137 137
1 Germany 1 105 105
1 General Ironside 0
1 General Assembly 1 100 100
1 Tremblant 0 31 31
1 Formidable I 1 114 114
1 Fine Blade 1 109 109
1 Faustus 0 94 94
1 Fairy King 0 85 85
1 Goldhill 0 117 117
1 Leading Counsel 0 119 119
1 Tudor Flame 0 78 78
1 Master Willie 0 88 88
1 Master Buck 0 63 63

Count DAM'S SIRE WINS Avg RPR Max RPR
1 Silver Hawk 0 91 91
1 Manado 2 111 111
1 Magical Strike 0 88 88
1 Lorenzaccio 0 88 88
1 Lord Americo 4 143 143
1 Long Pond 3 119 119
1 Jupiter Island 5 148 148
1 Legend Of France 0 102 102
1 Kahyasi 2 124 124
1 Simply Great 0 77 77
1 Skyliner 0 64 64
1 Zaffaran 0 102 102
1 L´Emigrant 0 35 35
1 Kris 0 97 97
1 Kinglet 0 58 58
1 Step Together 0 111 111
1 Tale Quale 0 90 90
1 Menelek 1 91 91
1 Linacre 1 99 99

 

Oddy, now I have the data in a processable format I should be able to answer any questions on Presenting.