Since SAF has been at the helm at Old T, the following clubs have won the European Cup twice: Porto. Three times: Real. Four times: Barca. Five times: Milan. None of these clubs have had the luxury of one superb manager in this period, giving the club continuity and time to develop Champions League winning teams. And few of their managers have enjoyed the total backing SAF has had to build four or five great sides 92-95, 96-9, 2000-2003, 2004-9, 2010-???. So why have these fantastic teams with the greatest ever domestic club manager failed to lay their hands on big ears four or five times. The foreign player quota ended long ago and affected all clubs. And after the 99 breakthrough, United were expected to lift at least one more EC with that side. Thoughts?
Has given us 12 Prem titles, so no, Im not disappointed in our Euro record, also in two euro finals we were beaten by the best team in the world.
Thoughts?[/QUOTE] Yep now you have won it you are allowed to talk about it. Well done. Since 2005 your club has outspent every team in the WORLD (apart from City the last couple of years). Why have you only won it once?
English football was **** compared to the rest of Europe for about the first 10-15 years of Sir Alex's time at Man Utd. It took a long, long time for English football to recover from the European ban. People seem to forget that. Even when Man Utd won the Champions League in 1999 it was against all the odds as the likes of Serie A and La Liga were far superior to the Premier League.
From the 1990/91 season (when the English European ban ended), only four clubs have won the Champions League more than once. We are one of those. So basically, what you're saying is that SAF has made us one of the top four clubs in the world, despite the significant tax and climate disadvantages football clubs have in the UK vs Spain and Italy, and the lack of a wealthy benefactor like Berlusconi or the City of Madrid? The man just went up even more in my estimation. Didn't think that was even possible
I would say SAF has made you one of the top two clubs in the world alongside Real despite Barca's recent success. He is maybe the greatest manager ever but through bad luck and poor tactics has been denied the four or five CLs he deserves. It is strange that United have struggled against Spanish clubs so much
Well considering the amount of luck you need to win the Champions League, I'm not disappointed with two finals. Then take into account everything else he has won, and that we've become a world super power under Fergies reign. Kind of hard to be disappointed with that.
Is this guy for real. Im a pool fan and would be amazed if any united fan was dissapointed with any aspect of Fergies success. Some Chelsea fans are becoming like the sons of rich daddies. Everything on a plate and no respect for teams that have made it on their own. As a Pool fan I obviously hate United, but have endless respect for them.....Will never have the same respect for the likes of Chelsea and City (as they are now.)
Not sure about top two - since 1990 Barca have won the CL four times, La Liga ten times and the CWC, so they have to be up there. If anything, I'd say Barca and Utd's success over the last two decades has been greater than that of Real. I agree with the bad luck and tactics, tho I would add that another factor is that SAF's focus is always on the league. If you look at the four clubs we've mentioned, since the CL began: Real - 7 La Liga, 3 CL, lowest league finish 6th Barca - 10 La Liga, 4 CL, lowest league finish 6th Milan - 7 Serie A, 3 CL, lowest league finish 11th Utd - 12 PL, 2 CL, lowest league finish 3rd So whilst we're behind in CLs, we're way ahead of all the others in league titles and consistency in the league. That probably ties into the tactics. As Chelsea showed this year, and Liverpool in 2005, the tactics needed to succeed in the league are very different from those needed to succeed in the CL. Interesting to note that every season Real won the CL they did not win La Liga, and Milan only won them both once, in 94. Only Utd and Barca have managed to win the league as well every time they won the CL. And let's be honest here, the league title is the most important thing for English fans as well. All Liverpool fans talked about for about two decades was 18 titles - the 5 European Cups only really got mentioned after we won title 19. The only time the CL is really important is when you either have no league campaign to speak of, or when it's your first one. Seven games actually. They beat you in the first leg in 2006. And if you look at our records against Barca since 05/06 they are: Chelsea - Knocked out Barca once, knocked out twice, met in group stage once and both qualified Utd - Knocked out Barca once, knocked out twice So we've both knocked them out once and been knocked out twice. The actual 'who beat who' is as pointless as saying Chelsea haven't beaten Liverpool in the league for the past two seasons. Who cares - you finished ahead of them both times!
Although I suspect the main point of the OP was to do some wumming, there are some issues raised worth debating. SAF has definitely mastered the premiership. He rules it even when the team is not at 100% strength. Where he has not been able to work out, is IMO how to get the best out of his team in Europe. I think last season was atypical. It was weird. There was so much inconsistency and I have never known such a poor group stage before. I am keeping my fingers crossed that SAF has rectified the obvious problems. While he could get away with a weak midffield in the premiership, he got punished every time his midfield was found wanting by the more savvy european teams. A team that ran the runaway leaders very close in the premiership was terrible in Europe. As for the chavs, they were awful in the premiership but rode their luck in Europe. They boast a proud record against Barcelona. Yes it is all about goals and in a way I was glad that Barcelona the overwhelming favorite did not win again. They and Spain were starting to lord it over everyone else. They showed that a team like Barcelona can be beaten. Having said that, can anyone in his right mind say that the Chavs are a better team than Barcelona? Even on the day? When Real Madrid beat Barcelona in the Liga, it was a great match and we said that Real deserved it and were the better team. Parking the bus in front of the goal like a third divison team playing a prem team is an admisssion that your team is not as good and must resort to some desperate negative measures. The Chavs managed to win the Champions league with a team that is NOT their best of the last few years. the Mourinho team was better. They deserve credit but even their most loyal fans would not be blind to the reality.
You beat them in 07/8 when they were in disarray under Rikjaard and finsihed 17 points behind Real. Even then you parked the bus in Camp Nou and also at Old T after Scholes scored a gem. Every time you've played a vintage Barca side they've pumped you. Same with Real
What Man Utd outplayed Barcelona in those semi's the only English club that parks the bus aginst them are Chelsea like you do against all the big teams. Barcelona were poor last season as well.
So you outplayed them , did you? In the first leg barca had 73 per cent possession and this was under Frank, where they had less possession than under Pep. 20 shots on goal v your 6. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/match?id=239745&cc=5739 Second leg, they had 62 per cent possession and double the number of shots on goal. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=239781&cc=5739 But you 'outplayed' them?
You and me have had this conversation before on another thread but I can confirm, as someone who actually went to both legs, we did not 'park the bus'. We're not familiar with the term, it's you lot that invented it. What actually happened was we missed a penalty in the first minute and strangely never recovered from it, it was an odd game. At home we scored and closed the game out, as all good european sides will do. Why the **** should we play fancy dan stuff and risk them beating us on an away goal? I love the way it doesn't count when we beat them as you deem them to be no good, brilliant.
YOu can rewrite history but the stats don't lie. Possession 73: 27; and 38: 62 at home. The 38: 62 at Old T is the lowest possession United have had at home in a European game
