There are those who might argue that this should be in Koeman's Corner or one of the general threads, but given our blank weekend coming up, and reports today I thought it might merit its own thread. Mods, trust you agree. Chelsea play PSG and you may recall there was a nasty racist incident on the Metro the last time Chelsea were in town. On radio 5 they are trying to make out that racism is endemic outside of the ground, but was controlled within it. As a Saint, I do think the club ran a decent campaign to reduce racist incidents. There are those among us who wondered whether the abuse suffered by Guly Do Prado, among others, was racially motivated. Suspicion there may have been, but proof there was none. Standing on the Northam I hear lots of abuse of players, but I can't remember the last time there was a racist comment made (the absurdly sexist "She Fell Over" still abounds, mind!). In fact the nearest I've felt we moved to racist chanting was when a section of fans wanted to praise a player and got it horribly wrong. "He's big, he's black, he plays at Centre Back, he's Paul Williams" was cringe-worthy on just every level. While when Victor's song first appeared it was still "In the jungle, the wild jungle" until the penny dropped! But today a Chelsea fan said he still heard a section of their fans singing about Concentration Camps on the way to matches, albeit not inside. Is it me? Have I been hidden from the horrors of some of our fans? Our nutters seem intent on shooting Pompey Scum and this is not only unpleasant and frankly boring but is it racist? Of course I accept we live in a racist society (and a sexist/homophobic one for that matter). I've overheard the racist and or Islamaphobic comments made about the Asian community through which we pass on the way to St Mary's, but have heard the same elsewhere and in general they seem isolated. I don't like the comments. I'd rather that the people making the comments didn't identify with Southampton FC. But, and this is a big but, I don't think that even these neanderthals will gain us the reputation of being a "racist club" as Chelsea have been tarred. I would love to hear other Saints think from their own experience.
I think it's a topic worthy of its own thread, Lambo, so no gripes from me. I used to think that we were improving on racism, xenophobia, homophobia, etc... and a gradually acceptance to all legal activities within our culture. Live and let live, as the saying went. But we're not. Every generation throws up a new ignorant crowd who jump on bandwagons because they're too lazy to think through a concept for themselves. It's one of the reasons why I always bang on about having an independent and questioning logical mind. It's not about being distrustful, but about being able to tease out what is patently logically and morally questionable [in this sphere] and what is the truth. People are too easily led, I'm afraid. They'll let others do their thinking, even to the extent that what's-his-name next door said something so it must be true. These issues stem out of ignorance, and plenty of people are quite entertained by remaining that way. So yes, I'll bet there are plenty of Saints fans who have questionable attitudes.
I don't doubt it. The Pompey supporting wing of my extended family would agree! But we don't see the mass racist chanting that is reported at Chelsea, for example. (Sorry Chelsea fans, you just happen to be in the news). So why is that, do we think?
I've not heard anything racial at St Marys. Worst I have heard is a 'fan' calling every player a c*nt. "Play it wide you c*nt, or come on you c*nt", in the Northam. Yes I agree we live in a racist society, my dad makes fun of any foreign names on T.V and their appearance (he also does the same to white people he thinks have a funny appearance). He finds it funny but would never do anything in public as he knows its wrong. Although he also intentionally mispronounces a word to get someone to bite, he just likes attention/controversy I think.
I don't think Saints is racist. Some fans will be racist statistically, but it reflects well on us that they keep it quiet as they know they won't get support. However, I think it is a shame that Black and Asian supporters aren't more common at St Mary's....I'd hate to think they didn't feel comfortable. I saw a lone female Black fan on TV once and she stuck out like a sore thumb. Be nice when that wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. As for the 'she fell over' chant, I'm not a great fan of taking offence when it isn't really meant or particularly serious. Some people think that all apparently sexist stuff should be challenged, but I believe in keeping your powder dry....even if it is in a compact and not a gun. Human beings shouldn't lose the ability to laugh at themselves.
Is your dad getting on in years? Mine will be 93 this year, and he comes out with some really embarrassing comments, when watching football on TV, the worst I can recall being "look at him (black player) doing a ni**er dance" after scoring. He's the politest man possible, in mixed company, so I can't make any excuses for him, nor can I get him not to make such comments. He also refers to Yoshida as "That Jap". Makes my blood boil.
Was the incident in France actually proved as racist ? I do not follow the British news, but all I saw was a phone video of one guy pushing another guy off a train. You can see it from two sides, 1. a potential attack on person. 2.A Chelsea fan potentially saving a French guy from abuse if he was to travel in a carriage full of Chelsea fans. I for one would not want to be in that carriage if I were a French person.
They chanted "We're racist, we're racist and that's the way we like it" You can see it for yourself here. As for Saints fans, I was on the shuttle bus from the Liberty to Swansea train station and heard a few racist comments along with chants about the Polish population of Shirley. "I'd rather be a Polish than a skate" - as if being Polish is somehow inherently bad.
Indeed! How about if we all become ignorantist. That is, intolerant of ignorant people. Or is that a step too far?
I'm a bit of a mongrel myself, having African, Malay and European background so tend to be tuned into racist remarks when I do hear them as members of my family have often been subject to racist remarks and treatment over the years. I don't however think that footie crowds are usually much different to other groups of people and have heard equally unpleasant comments from little old ladies in teashops or respectable looking families in the supermarket. Saints fans have their fair share of racists, but that is just because a certain percentage of the population will always be ignorant and misinformed despite society's best efforts. Crowds give people the courage to say these things out loud though as there is a perception of safety in numbers. My English grandad had a black dog called ******, but that was in 1935 so I tended to cut him a bit of slack as he was from an ignorant generation.
I think it was what they were singing that was the problem. They may not have behaved that way if alone and not drunk. It is possible that the one who did it may ha Have to cut some slack for someone of this age as things were different then and may not have even been meant as an insult. And you aren't going to learn new tricks so easily. My school uniform had to be ****** brown....but I never even knew what it meant....to me it was a particular colour and not related to any race. As for referring to Yoshida as a Jap...depends if it is said in a derogatory way...we refer to people as Scots and Brits without any under current.
Went to Spurs away a couple of years ago and there was one Saints supporter giving it the full on Jewish thing. It was quite shocking. You could tell that even the hardened away supporters were a bit taken aback. I have mentioned this incident before because I am still a bit annoyed/ashamed that no-one challenged him (me included) other than a few discreet 'tuts'. In my (our) defence, he was drunk and kind of unpredictable looking.
Here's where it gets tricky. Is, "that Jap" racist? If you didn't know Yoshida's name and you wanted to talk about him, I'm not sure what would be a better way. I guess it depends on the context. I would talk about, "the black guy" if I don't know a name and he stands out as a minority. I don't believe that is racist. I would do the same if, "the white guy" was in the minority. Its just the easiest way to describe someone. Maybe its lazy but is it any different than saying, "the ginger guy"? I think we all have a bit of inherent racism in us. I once walked a block or two too far in New Orleans and was suddenly the only white face to be seen. I couldn't help myself but to feel uncomfortable. That is, to and extent, racism.
Wouldn't call being uncomfortable in a strange place racist. Your subconscious is telling you that you may not fit in and to be careful. After all black people can be racist as well...and you may have been unwelcome.
I think that British society is under some illusion that racism is present in the smallest section of society. This is because people are very aware of what they should and shouldn't say these days. It is a case of denial though. Whilst a majority of Brits are not racist it is far from the picture of what it should be and when people lose their inhibitions (like at Football games) people who would never utter these words show their true colours. I am not talking about crowds chanting. I am talking about individuals voicing their opinion and forgetting their self censure. One day we will wipe out racism but not until we admit to how much we still have to do and stop trying to pretend it is such a tiny problem these days. Suppressing racism does not mean it is not there. That can only be educated and schooled out and generation by generation hopefully it will end. Pretending it is not there is like pretending immigration wasn't a concern for people and these things when pushed aside and not dealt with get bottled up and tend to explode eventually. I would rather the establishment admitted that it is still a big problem. Not as bad as it was decades or centuries ago but still worse than those in high places would have us believe. Tackle the issue head on and deal with it properly.
Interesting. My Dad is 68 and is what I call "generationally racist" but clearly he is the same generation as Lambo who isn't! I'm not sure how that works but maybe Lambo is just better travelled or more cultures than my Dad. Dad isn't aggressively racist but very passively racist. I continually pull him up on it. The most amazing thing is that my wife is Jamaican. Chinese Jamaican! He loves her and the kids and is a little sheepish when I pull him up on his "passive" comments, followed by a "Shall I send the wife and kids back too?"
