I'm not looking for a Hamilton/Button debate, but I do wonder if us British people tend to de-value our world champions. Most of our champions, up to James Hunt are generally held in high regard. Since (and including) Hunt we generally seem to value are champions much lower. There appears to be many ways to dismiss their acheivements, from luck, best car, opposition in poor cars, to grooming and conspiricy. I'm not looking for a flame war or any kind of nationalistic rubbish, but it does appear that we tend to find it easier to accept success that isn't home grown. It vexes me.
It's the media **** storm when we lose/make a mistake/have a personal faux pas that causes the issue. See, it's Murdoch again... and that is a serious comment
We do tend to treat them is if they lucked into it rather than earned it. I think that started with Hunt, who didn't exactly luck into it but Lauda's bad luck helped him a lot, I think. It's hard to remember really, I was a very small child! As for when it goes wrong, yeah what a **** storm. No mercy. Well, right now I think we need to promote them, the cars, the engineers and whole Great British Business of it all to our MPs. Tell them just how great it all is... But maybe not for much longer.
This is an interesting topic Bhaji. Perhaps you have a point. And I think McLarwum's response is very, very, very apt⦠The collective mentality of the British is to expect the highest standards from our representatives and to probe any imperfections, regardless of the consequences of bringing down any individual, since it is the nation which is held sacrosanct, rather than its individuals; who we 'expect' will be stoical in defeat. Phrases such as 'stiff upper lip'; 'take it like a man'; 'do your duty'; 'lie back and think of England'; 'for the greater good'; etc., impose a collective mentality that we are expected to excel, yet be both critical of success and stoical in defeat! The English way is to be modest in the celebration our victories (since 'it is only to be expected'), leaving any such excesses to the nationals of less cultured lands - nations perceived as being of lesser self-control, upon whom we adopt a superior manner over such unfortunates - who know no better and are to be tolerated in their ignorance. Such a mentality is the result of our collective perception of our history and superior standing in the world. It is the result of a manipulative establishment which plays each facet off against each other in order that the establishment itself remains unchallenged. As I heard very recently: "We don't do revolution here; we prefer evolution"â¦
I was just thinking something similar when I heard this new word 'GIPSI', meaning Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy. It has to be an Anglo invention because it means nothing in other languages. Intolerable arrogance, as I've saying about the BBC this last week. And the BBC are symptomatic of this cultural attitude too.
I disagree, I think that some media in the UK like to bash our sports people, but there is also alot of the other side. ITV coverage in particular was almost unwatchable if you were not a Hamilton fan. They tend to build British drivers up too much I feel,
Absolutely, 100% correct. Elsewhere, I have mentioned this extension of the government; it's 'media wing' through which information about the way we (should) think is disseminated and thereby becomes an imposed reality; a self-perpetuating pedestal of power. It is propaganda in its highest form, very much admired by the Nazis who focussed on extending the concept with (and through) their purpose built SS. But of course, we in 'Great Britain' would never lower ourselves to such a lack of subtlety. No, it could never happen in Britain…
Well my attempts to complain and to get answers from the BBC this week have left me feeling as if I'm trapped in a lost Franz Kafka novel.
The British media view the British people much like a child does with building bricks, how high can we build it? and once we've built it how quickly can we knock it down? I don't generally support people because they're british, although I can see a nationalistic bent with some of my choices, with solo sports it's more to do with who they are, what they do and/or how they do it. As to British WDC's from Hunt onwards, I think if Mansell had won the WDC in 86 when he had to fight for it it would've been more 'acceptable' than walking away with it finally in 92 when he had no competition. same really with Button, but I don't see anything wrong with Hamilton, the 'conspiracy' theory is just straw-clutching stupidity as it gets totally blown away if you consider that if it had really been a conspiracy then Glock would've come in for tyres (like nearly everyone else did) to make sure Lewis overtook him and wouldn't have been the fastest man on slicks, it's great fun flooring a kart on slicks around a wet bend, but I dunno if I'd like to try it in an F1 car with a concrete wall as my 'run-off'
Some interesting replies. Thanks. There are some points that ring true when it comes to the way that the British press deal with success. Almost any successful individual can be demonized, and not just by tabloids. There must be an appetite for this, otherwise it wouldn't sell. So then there's the Britishness. I struggle with this too as I don't quite understand it. Are we only comfortable being second best, do we like to be the plucky 'also ran' or do we have a genuine desire to witness our stars to fall from their pedestle? I'm not even sure if it is Bririshness or Englishness. All of our world champions are deserved winners. They came out above the rest of the field in their championship seasons, just like every other world champion. We should be able to celebrate them all rather than attempt to de-value them. That being said, I'm not one of those that believes every British person should support British drivers (unless you're a flavour of the month supporter, that annoys me) but I'm personally guilty of being a loyal supporter of British drivers.
This isn't exclusive to British drivers. Vettel gets the best car/conspiracy theory treatment. Alonso tends to get cut some slack I think because he ended Schumacher's reign, but still isn't immune from the conspiracy theories. Schumacher was discredited at every opportunity. Villeneuve got the "best car" criticism, and there's loads of controversy wrapped up with Senna and Prost. It seems that unless you're Finnish you get heavily criticised for your achievements, no one really has a bad word to say about Hakkinen and Raikkonen. I think when someone is disappointed with the result, they like to come up with an excuse for why their driver got beat, and the best way to do that is to slate the one who beat them.
I guess you're right in many regards, AG. It just seems as though British people dismiss achievements of British drivers in somewhat of a significant number or fail to acknowledge what they have achieved. I do wonder if Germans do the same when looking back at Schumacher and more recently Vettel.
I think its because the people who you dont see race, you hear about it on the internet or other places, and like this you only ever hear the good things about them unless you get hardcore haters. As you watch the people of today you see their mistakes and see them be crap sometimes. This is why I think Senna is liked most by people who didnt watch back then, as he was "exciting" and he naturally has more fans so they outweigh over drivers' fans and therefore people think he is much better than he is. (Not saying he isnt good )
I don't think British people tend to devalue their champions. Tabloids might though, after they have built them up. Tearing them down again means added column inches. They do that to anyone, not just British champions. Senna's mental state for instance was ripped to shreds by the tabloids in 1989/90. If anything I am in agreement with Happyal in that some sections of the media tend to build up handsown, homegrown gladiators.....
I'm not having a go at button with this pic i just reckon its funny: please log in to view this image However, it's not just in Britain where recent drivers are percieved as inferior (if they are). Our media here in Aus constantly had gos at Webber right up until halfway through last year when it looked like he could become champion, then they made it seemed like they had supported him all along, and then had another go at him when he didn't win.
