I ask simply because many United fans and fans of other clubs refuse to give them any credit at all for what they have done. Numerous threads, numerous websites and fans from all over the world point to Sir Alex Ferguson as the reason United have kept pace with the big spenders. Is this really the case, its all down to Fergie and the players have no part in it? Bollocks. We have some of the best players in the world in our team, Rooney, Nani, Vidic would all walk into most teams starting 11 and probably be part of every squad. They players and others like De Gea, Rio, Smalling, Evans, Carrick and the rest have all played their part. I dont recall SAF tipping the ball round the post or slotting home the winner too often, I dont recall him skinning his man and whipping in a cross for Welbeck or someone to finish. I thought the players had done a bloody good job last season, at times played the best football in the league, easily the best we have played since the ronaldo days yet SAF takes all the praise. Clearly hes part of the reason but its made out like Fergie could take Wolves and get them to United level or thyat he could turn any team into a United empire. Thats simply not true. Fergie works well with those who put effort in, know their role and follow his instruction and guidance. Fergie at City would never work for example, hes knock half their team our and they would never play again for him. Why can people not understand that Fergie is building another team, one which works for him, with him and each player is there not because we couldnt get someone else but on merit. They deserve to be there. We have youngsters with over 100 games for us, some have started CL finals ( Fabio ). We have Englands best player and potentially the next world class english striker aswell. We have portugals second best players ( in fairness hes their best as Ronaldo doesnt do it for portugal ), Spains future number one, englands future CB partnership........... These players have done more in their career already than some clubs have even done yet nobody wants to give them some credit, 1 or 2 of the right players come in and we will have the best team in the world, it will be the next barcelona, young players growing together so they have an almost telepathic connection.
To say that we have been saying our players are rubbish is too strong!! What I think most fans have said was that our players are not quite there in terms in competing with the very elite. There is a certain fragility about them which will decrease with experience and time playing together. The praise for SAF is because if you had the same players playing under any other manager we would probably be fourth or fifth. And considering that while the City owners are PUMPING money IN, ours are DRAINING money OUT, then we can see how massive the achievement of both SAF AND the players were this season. (City 1Bn IN and United 0.5 Bn OUT : a difference of 1.5 Bn)
4th or 5th. Are you saying Tottenham and Arsenal have better players than us? I disagree strongly there. Even without Fergie this team would challenge, it would probably of finished 2nd last season albeit on a lower score. I agree SAF deserves heaps of praise but not at the expense of the players, they all deserve praise for doing a great job. Players like Nani, Rafael, Evans who we have all given stick to in the past have shown they can do the job at the highest level and have consistently performed amongst the best players in the league. De Gea has proven himself to be a very promising goalkeeper while Smalling and Jones have shown great potential. You say our players are not quite there in terms of challenging the elite but again, in the last 2 seasons we have won 1 title, finished second and only lost the title on goal difference, reached the champions league final and gone toe to toe with the elite and matched them over the season. SAF is part of this reason but the players are another part.
I think we have to agree to disagree here. Whilst we have some very good players, many are young and inexperienced. Can anyone believe that another rmanager would have "nearly" won the title with the current squad? I know you acknowledge that we might have been a distance behind in second. But that is the whole point. Being second, with City running away with it is different to challenging until the last minute of the season, with City fans biting their fingernails.
Its also possible a different manager would buy different players in the coming transfer window. Fergie builds slowly with a long term view so our squad now would be right where he wants them in terms of ability and quality. Hes ready to add the last few pieces and it will be done but hes not a manager to buy 10 new players a year. He adds first team players about as often as Kenny won games for Liverpool. A different manager might of been further ahead with a team but be more likely to sign new players on a regular basis. Fergies long term goals can and do at times hamper us for a season or two while the team grows and gains the vital experience. I have a feeling next season is the year Fergies final team 'clicks' into gear.
The players are of the highest Caliber. We earned our position and got 89 points because the players were capible of doing so. Sir Alex is without a doubt the best in history, but you cant polish a turd. All he's done is extract the best of what was already their potential. They are of course as a squad slightly worse than city's at the moment, but i dont think we're very far from having an excellent group.
Have you not been paying attention? The reason we have kept pace with the big spenders is because rather than spend money on players we have spent it all on bribing the referees, the FA, the media and pretty much anyone else we can find. Our supposed "debt" is purely a fabrication to hide the millions we have to spend every year. Not to mention bribing all the police, the courts and every investigative journalist in the country to prevent them from exposing our massive Webb (geddit ) of corruption. This. People seem to forget that the reason SAF gets so much out of his players is because he shows so much loyalty to them. So we still have players like Rio, Fletcher, Evans, Carrick and Park who other managers might have ditched in favour of a flashy replacement years ago. It's a two way street - in order to get the best out of the team SAF commits himself to sticking by them even when they are injured or out of form. Slightly worse on paper, perhaps. But the last time I tried playing football on paper I got horrible paper cuts all over my legs...
As UnitedInRed said, Fergie is building for the future so we have a mixture of experienced players, players at the peak of their powers and a solid bunch of young players who will still improve. I've just posted something on the First Team Squad thread that's linked to this issue, but I won't bore you with the details here. Basically, my opinion is that we have 12 "Not Yet Peaked" players, 8 "Peak" players and 7 "Past Peak" players, a healthy balance which means that we're well set up for the future. City have mainly "Peak" players and very very few "Past Peak" players, which is understandable as they were virtually given unlimited funds and went wild in the transfer market. We have a sustainable strategy where the squad is tweaked at regular intervals but no major upheavals are ever required... Our ratio of experienced players to peak players to young players has stayed fairly constant throughout the last fifteen or so years.
You make some good points. The key thing is that the manager is leader who puts all this together. He selects the players, sells and buys them, decides on the balance between "experience" and "youth", between the "proven" and the "with potential". When it goes pear shaped, the manager quite rightly takes the can. When it goes well, he should take the credit. None of the things that have been described on this thread happened by chance.
Your players ain't ****, your squad just isn't as awesome as it used to be, nut 89 points speaks for itself. You'll still be up there for years. I do fucing hate you lot.
I kind of agree here... In my opinion you have Rooney, Vidic and maybe Valencia who can call world class players. Nani isnt world class for me. The trouble with Man Utd is that for every decent player you also have 3 ro 4 that are complete dross. In my lifetime Man Utd have always carried rubbish in there squad for whatever reason but they are doing it now more than ever. I have said it before and I will say it again, Man Utd have players that fit into a system and those skills and soccer knowledge dont always translate to the international stage or other teams. Carrick is a good example of this, he starts every game for Man Utd but would he get into another team in the top 8?? I dont think so. Same goes for Fletcher, Welbeck, Smalling, Jones and Evans.
You mention Carrick and yet while he had a great season he didn't really get a look in at the start. I wasn't until Anderson, Cleverly and Fletcher were out that he became a cert to start. As for the "dross".... Can't have a squad of 25 big name players on huge wages. A balanced squad needs players off all different ages and abilities. For every C.Ronaldo blazing down the wings on 200k pw there ought to be a Park Ji Sung waiting on the bench quietly, uncomplaining, waiting to offer the team something different when needed or when injuries mount up. Players like Park and recently Brown and O'Shea might never really be starting 11 quality but you'd have to search far and wide to find better players willing to sit out the majority of games and give it their all when called.
