Most people seem to have excepted survival this year as target achieved but what of next season ? Our attendances for 2013/14 season were 6,219 average, our position in the attendance league was 60th, our position in the league pyramid was 61st. So the above puts our league position just one place below our attendance position, so if attendance doesn't improve for 2014/15 do you expect improvement in our league position.
This has always been my argument against a new ground and this obviously can only be something that will be a test of time, IF Scally ever gets his dream off the ground. I quite often read where people seem to suggest that a new ground will bring a greater attendance. Why? Because the only logical solution that i can come up with is that if you can finance a new ground, you may also have the finance to support a better playing budget, hence higher attendances in turn will follow and the cycle commences. However, you have to have that finance in the first place as a starting block, then does that make the subsequent followers glory hunters? Why does the process not begin in reverse? Support the team first in numbers at the existing ground and allow that to be the building blocks to move forward. Which ever route is followed out of the two scenarios will then lead to the answer of the question, which is a higher position. However, I don't go to support my team with expectation but with hope. Whereas the opposite polarity is expectation because other's may lack the same passionate hopes. You only had to watch the Champions League Final and Real Madrid's fourth goal, clear evidence that ego's come before team, self indulgence before passion. The latter is the more lively winner but not one that i would want to be part of, hence why i hate the Premier League. Imagine my dilemma and torment IF Scally ever achieved that dream.
As a club we need to be making improvements, however small, season after season; be it on or off the pitch. We need to be expecting this, or what is the point of the football. The minute you rest on your laurels the game is over
I think a year on year improvement should be the aim, however it may not be neccessary realistic. For me, next seasons goal would be to do a port vale, never in doubt of being relegated but at the same time never really threatening the playoffs. Currently however we are joint favourites to finish bottom, and when you take off the rose tinted glasses that many posters on here look through, and think about last years opposition (those who do actually go to games) then they would also know that apart from Crewe, the only other teams we were actually better than are the 4 that were relegated. So for me, the signings will make a massive difference to the clubs ambitions this season, I'm really not sure how it will pan out.
There are too many contributing factors to a team's success, solely basing it on attendance would be inaccurate. Orient have managed to gain enough points to challenge for automatic promotion in League 1 this season without spending a penny on transfer fees in four years (according to BBC) yet they have a similar if not lower attendance than ourselves. They have built a foundation steadily and through Mr Slade have found a manager who is able to get them winning games. Whilst I am behind Taylor, I do not expect him to complete a squad of world beaters in one off season. This is our natural level but we as a club should look to develop. One method to push on is to not - as a club - be entirely reliant on gate receipts. Priestfield is not an attractive location to non-Gills fans, the one's that I have spoken to perceive it to still be a cow shed where ugly football is played. I guess the second belief is arguable. What a new stadium would offer is increased off season income in the long term (through the likes of the hotel and tennis academy) and the ability to attract more customers with the renewed image. Whilst vocal support is paramount I think increasing numbers is good and they can pick up the passion through attendance.
I don't think attendances are the only factor for achieving success, however, there are very few examples of clubs competing year after year with low attendances. In the 5 years of Championship football our average attendance was 8,603 (a lot from away fans) which always left us as guests and it wasn't if we would drop back down but when. Is there any chance that our attendances will/could ever become high enough to compete above league 1, our best ever season was 1952 when we averaged over 12,000 for the season, even this would be low to mid table championship.
My biggest fear is that we will be left with a big white elephant. gillslad69's post caught my attention and got me thinking, what was the Orient model, their gate receipts must be similar if not lesser than ours. I've not checked any stats. However, is the club not owned by a multi millionaire...Barry Hearn? So despite a thought provoking post, I see the similarities with us diminished. I don't pretend to know Scally's financial situation in regards to our club (non personal), other than what i see legit through companies accounts but I would imagine that we can't compete or compare to the Orient model other than in gate receipts but what losses is their Chairman buffering that got them to their current level. In fairness the gamble has paid off for LO but what a gamble - although how much did yesterday's defeat cost that model. All said and done, Orient have still got to compete with a high density of London clubs, so could failure come at a quicker pace then it took them to build. What's the long term plan for stability. Not until we know all the answers from the Orient model should we venture into our own. Clearly there is prospect within the Medway Towns, I can see that, so assuming we are planning ahead and not leaping in blindly, what is our model, what are the expected attendances at a new build, what pricing structure will be in place, how will this be supported by the surrounding ventures, that's without asking what happens IF Scally ever walked. For every new build I've been too, I've hated the surrounding area, sterile, barren, over priced, only accessible via motor vehicle. grumpy has pointed out our average attendances with 1952 being the highest at 12k, so any stadium over 12k would be pure madness surely and one that our current one could just about accommodate with development of the scaffolding. All this though is no guarantee of a better league position, unless your Crawley, Rotherham...you don't need my thoughts on that one. After all we have never been very good at the Gills of doing our homework. I give you ITV Digital proof alone what happens if you get it wrong competing with the big boys (SKY).
What we have now is not enough for progressing as a club, we could flirt with the Championship again but it wouldn't be sustainable for the longer term so what should we do? I don't see becoming a millionaires play thing as long term, he loses interest and the trap door opens. A new ground with 12,000 capacity and room for future expansion is the way to go, the ground would have to include other income streams outside of football. Surprisingly I think Scally being reliant on our success for his own income works in our favour, it's in his interest to protect the long term future and stability of the club including steady progress toward improving our league position and asset values. Any future success depends on a long term plan giving steady and sustainable progress, will supporters have the patience to look 10 years into the future or will they expect results now, without the level of support improving or income streams increasing any success can only be short term.
This is a very thought provoking subject, I have said elsewhere that I think league 1 (or the third tier of English football) is our natural home and these figures just about bear that out, and I was fascinated by the Leyton Orient comparison and think that BRB has commented excellently on what that might tell us. From my own point of view I want us to be competitive in this division, hopefully winning more matches than we lose and maybe flirting with the play offs. How we achieve this with a smaller budget than many of our rivals is in my opinion is where the manager, coaches and scouts come in. Firstly we need to get the best young talent in the area coming through our ranks. Young players need to the lifeblood of the club, we need young players in the team and making progress as this benefits the team in the short term as they will be on lower wages and long term because they will be sold, and that as much as we may not like it is an important source of income for the club. We must also scout good non league players, there are plenty out there who can make the step up to league football, I realise that the conference is largely a professional league now and that some sides pay good wages, but there is market there that we should be involved in, and finally you must have a manager with good contacts further up the pyramid, a couple of season long loans of championship quality young players, with the majority of their wages being paid by the their parent club can sometimes add that spark of quality that helps lift a club to the next level.
Compete over a long period in the Championship? Doubt we could realistically do that. Has any club with averages attendances (in that league) around our 8,000 figure, ever stayed there long term? I'm relatively happy enough with our history as a club over the 40 years I've been a supporter. And maybe more so the most recent 20 years. There's been numerous promotion/play-off/near miss years that get us all up and about. There's a few mediocre years when we all dream of the improvement next season. Then there's the calamitous years when we then have a good clear out and start again. Without those poor years, you can't appreciate the good times. Ask all those supporters of top EPL teams. One loss they are apoplectic. Not for me. So all this "year on year improvement" is great. But you just can't do it every single year. There will always be regressions and jumps. That's football. Every other club is also trying to improve, not just us. And they all have good years and not so good years. If my team can stay competitive in it's division, maybe challenge for the top spots every now and then, and give me some highs to go along with the lows. I'm happy. Call me pessimistic and not reaching for higher goals, but I do still have a club to cheer for.
this is our level. mid table in the third tier; If we do want to compete with the leagues above we should be looking at a bigger stadium long term.At least 20,000. The club that was smaller than ours is Wigan and wimble who both got bigger gates when they went up.
I am enjoying just how grounded an opinion there is on this thread. Not pessimistic, just grounded. I also believe that a prolonged period in the Championship is unlikely as things stand, however it is nice to hear an option that I personally haven't heard mentioned which is the new stadium but similar capacity. I find that option intriguing, if we are able to stream line the running costs of the ground and introduce environmentally friendly technology to cut down off pitch costs. If we're focussing on the site that the master plan was released for, the access via rail could really cut down policing costs. If we have a capacity of 12,000 but with available space for future expansion then I think it would really benefit our on the pitch future. I know that this could be a white elephant but if the month to month off the field costs were cut this could benefit the club in years to come incase another ITV digital were to happen. I went to my first game the year after Scally had bought the club at the age of six. I think of myself as a fan, I now sympathise with those that had experienced the club coming that close to liquidation and understand that we have had far better moments recently than bad. I cannot make every game due to working a shift pattern in London but can really appreciate how exciting the club has been over the past 20 years. I'd like to know that if people found the club more approachable they could bring their kids along and - like me - pick up something that they wish to support for life.
The ambitions of many are too low in my opinion, I do not expect a league one promotion push next season but I certainly expect an improvement on 17th, which was poor for a championship winning side coming up in my opinion! League one is certainly weaker next year, I can see at least 2 of the promoted league 2 sides going straight back down!
Grumpy states the b obvious with great skill. It is no coincidence that if you look at league positions stay very similar if compared at 10 year intervals. There is no doubt that money is the driving force for achievement but this does not make attendances the only criterion for success. Generating transfer fee income or having a rich owner willing to invest are equally important influences. The problem with the last two is that they tend to be short lived. So what is realistic for Gills? Ask the bookies who will judge things based on their view of money availability. Rightly they conclude that Gills are heading for League 2. This has nothing to do with management, just realism, and keeping Gills in league 1 next year will be a mighty achievement. With good management they might just do it.
I think this is a very good question, obviously I wherever you find yourself in the league people will always want to be higher but thats the nature of the beast I suppose. In my honest opinion I believe Gillingham to be a top half league 1 side, too big for league 2 and not big enough to compete in the championship. When you do look at the attendance figures you could rightly say that we are by rights a relegation dodger in league 1 but when you take into account our away end is a shambles, meaning we cant attract many fare weather away fans maybe bumping the attendance up by 50? Added to the fact we have had a turbulent season with the sacking of Mad Dog and a lack of consistency some home fans may stay away, next season I think we could comfortably attract 7,500+ every week if we start to play nice football and get away from the relegation zone which I guess would put us just outside the playoffs (i don't know the actual figures) which would be fair. Looking at the Wembley thread however you can see that we could be a decent championship club if we developed the ground or even moved, I don't think I'm being too idealistic when I say we could easily replicate Brighton if we were in the same position, but for the moment I will be happy with us to try and squeak into the play offs for the next couple of years as, even though he has his critics, Mr. Scally does allow us to, in a sustainable way, enjoy league football season on season which I would happily pick above the boom and bust, devil may care, attitude many foreign owners adopt after buying a club.
Liam I'll pick up on your point about a weaker league 1 next season as I partly disagree. In my opinion, the 3 sides that went up are better than the 3 sides that are coming down, however that won't effect us overly. What concerns me is that the 4 teams coming up are all better than the 4 just relegated, which greatly effects us. Plus you will undoubtedly have an improved Bristol City, Coventry and Sheffield United meaning that I believe it will actually be a harder league this season.
I think we'll see an improved Bristol City and Sheffield United but I think Coventry will struggle again, especially if they sell Wilson ( very likely). As for the sides coming up, on reflection maybe three will be alright but I can see at least one going down! I'd expect Crawley, Colchester, Crewe to be down there again, Port Vale aswell if Loft goes to us. I'd seriously be disappointed if we didn't finish above 17th next year!
Most people posting have put forward very reasoned points, no one seems to have expectations of instant success yet most would like to see some longer term progress, how that can be achieved is the big unknown. I believe improving attendance figures and growing non football revenue streams is the only long term sustainable option, I just don't know how we can achieve this. Prices on the gate is often muted as an option but when the kids for a quid, friends for a fiver, 2 games for £20, are offered gates might show a small increase but not enough to cover the cost of running the promotion. The quality of football is another thing often thrown into the argument, play entertaining football and the fans will come, the point seems like a good one until you look at Sir Keith, many still rate Sir Keith's time us free flowing entertaining football and remember it as some of the good times. 1981 average attendance 4,676 final position 15th. 1982 average attendance 5,241 final position 6th. 1983 average attendance 4,076 final position 13th. 1984 average attendance 3,916 final position 8th. 1985 average attendance 4,720 final position 4th. 1986 average attendance 3,691 final position 5th. 1987 average attendance 4,971 final position 5th. All of those years were at level 3 (league 1 now) and rate as some of our lowest attendance figures in the last 50 years, so what is the answer. Running a football club from your armchair is easy but how do we as a club move forward when there is no rigid formula for success, how much is luck and how much is planning, how do we get more people into the ground, it's never as easy as we think but a small number of clubs do manage to move forward and after 57 years as a Gills fan I still live in the hope that we could be one of them.
I can't believe what I'm reading. League One is where we should be? Are you having a laugh!?!?! We should be fighting for Champions league positions every season. It's an absolute shambles that Taylor didn't get us promoted with the current squad, that team is easily capable of winning the quadruple. We should be trying to sign players like Messi, Bale, Thiago Silva, Heskey etc every transfer windows. Instead we can't even keep a hold of Akinfenwa. There's a combined population of 1.7 million people in Kent and Medway and being the county's only decent club we should be attracting mass attendances. The new stadium should be built to hold somewhere between 80 to 90,000 seats. Every fan will love going to see the mighty Gills play at the Andy Hessenthaler stadium. My estimation is far more realistic than any of yours....
