Sean O'Driscoll sacked as Forest manager and they are in 8th place so ther's an obvious comparison to be made here. He had his charges 17 points ahead of another team I know but was given the boot for not having the drive to make them a promotion contender, or even certainty. The owner wants to bring in a proven Premier manager to take them back to their promised land after several years in the wilderness. Does the wilderness appeal to you or would you prefer to have the drive and ambition that appears to be in vogue at Forest and many other clubs in our division? The wilderness is the place where people and football clubs go to see out their final hurrah unless some kind benevolent kindred spirit comes along and takes them out of their misery. The us and them seem to be worlds apart right now and I keep asking why. Depends on your point of view I suppose but I know what I see from here and it doesn't look good. Am I so wrong?
Forest are a big club, one that can compete with the likes of Manchester Liverpool and London. They are twice European Champions, and have a trophy cabinet in which, occasionally, they actually get to put silverware. Forest have serious financial backing, a ground that marks them out as big time, a footballing public who come out in numbers to support them, and a history of producing some of the country's top players. I think they probably have a right to expect results, although sacking a manager prematurely wont necesarily do the job. We on the other hand are a LITTLE CLUB, with no silverware, ever, a tiny ground, a manager who cannot compete with the likes of Forest in the transfer market, or with wage demands. Our average gate is tiny compared to the Forests of this world, who definitely can compete at the top level on the kind of gates they could expect in the Prem. Yes we are trying to grow, and yes we are trying to get a ground that doesn't embarrase us, but for Heaven's sake why should our fans expect results on MICKEY MOUSE MONEY ? Get real guys. If a miracle happens (like it did once before) then fab, but we can hardly expect it or demand it. Not unless we start getting the kind of support afforded to clubs like Nottingham Forest
When you look at teams that declined over the last 20 years or so, and Forest is included in that list, you only have to look at their ability to fill the stadium despite lower league status. Regrettably City has never had that kind of support to fill the coffers and rebuild at an acceptable level. Sad state of affairs isnt it.
Both those clubs have outside people with money behind them, but who dont have the town or city at heart. They are souless teams. As will be Leeds soon. The Forest supporters actually like SoD. Imagine if we had been midway through the Johnson revolution and then our club had sacked him and brought in Southgate or Robson "As they had premiership experience". At least we can post on here in the hope and maybe expectation that people who care about the club might pay some attention. Do the Venkeys or the Saudi's or whatever actually care about the fans, or is it just a business to them. The owners dont care less about what the fans want or think. I am proud to have an Owner who cares deeply about the club. Who wants the club to be built on rock and not sand. And who has the patience to stick and not twist. Like pushing a car out of the mud, sometimes you have to let it roll back a bit, in order to get enough push to go forwards. I want us to be a Swansea or Norwich - true to our roots - not a QPR. BrightRedRickster has posted superbly above and I am 100% in agreement. Once we start getting the support from the people of Bristol then we will get what we deserve. At the moment, we are where a club with crowds lower than Watford and Bradford deserve to be. I dont like it, but the truth hurts.
Maybe if we had achieved big things in the past on a continued basis, like Ipswich and like Forest etc, then our base support now would be much larger. Make you wonder where we would be now if we had managed to sustain our success in 1979. Even Coventry have won the FA Cup, and their Div 1 support is probably larger than our Championship one, nb Actually having just checked it, we have much larger attendance figures than Coventry, and the attendances generally at Div 1 level make sobering reading. However, our largest attendance of the season is comfortably smaller than Forest's smallest, and there are 3 clubs in the Championship who have even bigger crowds than them. The biggest shock for me is to note that the number one crowd puller in the Championship this season so far is Brighton and Hove Albion, with a mind blowing average of 25,000. City are in 19th place out of 23, which does prove the point. Anyway........back to Christmas
Man Cty in Div 1 (the third tier) were getting two and a half times our support. Both Sheffield clubs got almost double ours, and Sheffield is a smaller City. These are the clubs whose fans "deserve" success. Bradford have a chance of some silverware this year.
Sheffield is the 4th biggest city in England behind London, Birmingham and Leeds. Glasgow pushes it into 5th when it's UK
Actually, I would dispute that last comment. Whenever we have had even a modicum of succcess or, are in big trouble, the crowds turn up in their numbers, the 19,500 capacity sells out and judging by the number of people who I personally know who wished they could have got tickets (multiply that by your own experience), we could probably sell a good 5-10,000 more for important games.... Success brings its own rewards including crowds - the key to this is CONSISTANCY which is something that has been sadly lacking and is what damages the attendances. Put together a string of results and the numbers will grow As for the latest casualty at Blackburn, 11 GAMES...! - do me a favour...!!!
yes. my bad. (as the young folk say). Though both their clubs average gates added together, are a bigger percentage of their population than both Bristol clubs I would wager (where is JGF2 when you need him !) Interesting that 25,000 of Brightons population of 156,000 turnout to their games. 1/7 roughly, whilst if we give the Gas 8000 fans, then we get 20,000 total out of 400,000 (or 1/20). Thats enough Maths for today... PS - imagine if we were getting average gates of 19,000 say. We would be quite right in DEMANDING results
I am going to make a new years resolution to get to more games. I live 106 miles away, but thats a poor excuse for not supporting the team at home in person. I have not seen the team lose yet this season, but conversely have not attended a home game. Clearly its my fault.
Several posters on this thread have referred to clubs that at present are considered by the football world in general and especially by these club’s fans and obviously by most Bristol City supporters as bigger clubs than City. Why? Because all of these clubs have spent more seasons over the past fifty/sixty years in either the First or second tiers of English football than City. And yet the following statistics (SHOWN IN A SEPARATE POST) make for some interesting reading. Because in the fifties, sixties and seventies when City played Forest, Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds and Leicester, in a high percentage of the matches between City and these teams, the higher of the home attendances was at Ashton Gate. Even against Forest in 1979-80, when Forest were European Champions. Thus I do not agree with those who say that these clubs are bigger than City. Just more consistently successful, yes. Yet for all this, we are considered a SMALL club. Because City just cannot ever seem to sustain the momentum when promotion is gained. 1955 lasted for 5 years; 1965 lasted for 10 years, followed by another promotion in 1976. Our first time in the top tier for 65 years. Lasted 4 years before three successive relegations. 1983 got us back to the third tier yet it took another 7 years before 1990 which lasted 5 years. 1998 lasted one season and now after 2007, we are facing another relegation after six seasons. IF WE CAN ONLY BREAK THIS CYCLE AND HAVE A PERIOD OF STABILITY IN THE UPPER MID TABLE OF THE CHAMPIONSHIP, WE MIGHT AT LONG LAST BE ABLE TO HOLD OUR HEADS UP AS COMPARED WITH THE AFOREMENTIONED “BIG CLUBS” and a lot of others like Wolves, Middlesboro, Ipswich etc.
Opponents Season League Home Away Comments Forest 1950-51 3(S) 31152 16733 Forest promoted to Div 2 1955-56 2 22578 14145 1956-57 2 27646 22032 Forest promoted to Div 1 1972-73 2 13861 8680 1973-74 2 13125 12756 1974-75 2 10006 11339 1975-76 2 15302 11583 City promoted to Div 1 1977-78 1 31990 21743 Forest promoted from Div 2 1978-79 1 26953 28008 Forest won European Cup 1979-80 1 24733 23421 Forest won European Cup Sheffield United 1956-57 2 19743 22962 1957-58 2 19965 15278 1958-59 2 20551 23170 1959-60 2 16005 17739 City relegated to Div 3 1968-69 2 19580 14887 1969-70 2 11159 15539 1970-71 2 14999 15097 United promoted to Div 1 Sheffield Wednesday 1955-56 2 32510 22000 Wednesday promoted to Div 1 1970-71 2 13093 12481 1971-72 2 12568 12738 1972-73 2 12373 13819 1973-74 2 13829 15888 1974-75 2 11946 10888 Wednesday relegated to Div 3 Leeds United 1955-56 2 30829 31751 Leeds promoted to Div 1 1976-77 1 23587 21461 1977-78 1 26215 24830 1978-79 1 25388 22529 1979-80 1 22845 17376 City relegated to Div 2 Leicester City 1955-56 2 27419 28524 1956-57 2 24518 32653 Leicester promoted to Div 1 1969-70 2 17044 25954 1970-71 2 16103 20228 Leicester promoted to Div 1 1977-78 1 20102 16454 1978-79 1 19704 17011 Leicester relegated to Div 2 PS; sorry this was done as a table but not appeared here. So it's a bit harder to read down the headings. City home gate on left followed by away gate.
I have said for years city under the right guidance is a massive untapped club. It just needs uncorking
Cider, I remember going to Notts County's ground in the early 80's for an FA cup game when we were in the bottom tier and they were in old Division One (finished 2-2). I remember at the time being shocked at how poxy and small The City Ground was, it had one stand that only went half the length of one side of the pitch....! Then they built the new big double decker at one end and then joined up the half stand with what is now the away end at the bottom tier and made it half decent but the stand opposite the long side is still of similar standard to the Williams....
Yes I was there at Meadow Lane that day and also went over the road to look at Forest's inaptly named "City Ground" The main stand is a very old one but as you say now with three other sides rebuilt. Yet the capacity is only 30,602. Is this really what one would call a big club? No they are no bigger in terms of potential than City. As I said earlier, just their record in the last 50 years. I'm not in normal life a jealous person, but when it comes to football, I am so jealous of so many teams from smaller cities who have made it. And just a thought for SL if he reads this. Dave Whelan has spent a fair amount of his money to get Wigan where they are today. To get Bristol City to the same level of performance as Wigan, would probably cost 50% of what Whelan has invested. BECAUSE OUR GATES WOULD BE 300% OF WHAT WIGAN'S ARE SO OUR INCOME WOULD BE MUCH HIGHER.
I've also realised another difference between City and those mentioned above as "Bigger Clubs". It is that we HOPE one day to be successful and win trophies/promotion to Prem. These other clubs EXPECT TO DO IT!
Are you sure Cider ? That is not the impression I have after listening on this site for the last 5 years ? It never used to be like that back in the 70s Then it was assumed that City couldn't do a thing right and there was something reassuring and comforting about that. Then AD began to introduce his team and everything changed (and thank God it did). Having all but abandoned our youth academy for the past 32 years I dont really think we can complain too much if the cupboard is bare. What is SL supposed to do ? Go spend 30 million on a star player ? Go on son... Apart from aforementioned stay in the Div 1 of the 70s, and a quarter final in the FA cup, our club has existed as a yoyo between Divs 2&3 (olde stylee). Sorry but that definitely makes us a small club. But size isn't everything guys, right ?
Can we ever imagine Bristol City in Europe? I certainly can't. I used to enjoy the old Anglo-Italian cup thing. That seemed like a good idea at the time. But Bristol City v Real Madrid or Barcelona. I would love to see it, but it wont ever happen in my lifetime.
