Another Football Problem

[Dr.Stanley O'Google, HCFC]

The black population of the UK is around 3.0%. There isn't an issue in the UK regarding coaches who come from an ethnic minority background. Managers and coaches are hired on merit, and if they're not good enough, they don't get hired.

Ethnic Groups - 2011 Census data[edit]

Map showing the percentage of the population who are not white according to the 2011 census.
According to the 2011 Census, the ethnic composition of the United Kingdom was as set out in the table below.

Ethnic group 2011 population 2011%
White: Total 55,010,359 ..............................87.1
Gypsy/Traveller/ Irish Traveller: Total 63,193.......0.1
Asian or Asian British: Indian 1,412,958...................2.3
Asian or Asian British: Pakistani 1,174,983...........1.9
Asian or Asian British: Bangladeshi 451,529..............0.7
Asian or Asian British: Chinese 433,150..............0.7
Asian or Asian British: Other Asian 861,815..............1.4
Asian or Asian British: Total 4,373,339....................6.9
Black or Black British: Total 1,904,684....................3.0
Mixed Multiple: Total 1,250,229............................2.0
Other Ethnic Group: Total 580,374.......................0.9
Total 63,182,178.................................................100
Sources: 2011 Census: KS201UK Ethnic group, local authorities in the United Kingdom, Accessed 21 February 2014

 

[ellewoods]

The biggest issue is the small percentage of black players who take their coaching badges, of those that have several have been given an opportunity, though unfortunately, so far, not many have made a very good job of it, but I'm sure that will change in time.

Liam Rosenior and Tom Huddlestone are both currently taking their coaching badges, I think both have the potential to be decent managers and will be given an opportunity when the time comes.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...nt-jobs-theyre-good-enough.html#ixzz3IDEpzaae

Then a way to fix the institutional racism that is occurring would be to some how encourage a more diverse set of players to get their coaching badges. Certainly if minorities are not getting their coaching badges then they can not be hired for the job and a Rooney rule would have no effect.

We dont have coaching badges so that was not an issue with us.

 

[DMD]

What about Eskimo's, Japanese, Indian, Chinese etc never mind native Americans?

I struggle to believe a businessman would cut his nose off by not employing the best person for the job. I simply see nothing that supports any claim that fans or players would be bothered. FFS, we employ rapists, and wifebeaters. Skin colour is irelevant to the post. UK football is a meritocracy.

 

[Spook]

Then a way to fix the institutional racism that is occurring would be to some how encourage a more diverse set of players to get their coaching badges. Certainly if minorities are not getting their coaching badges then they can not be hired for the job and a Rooney rule would have no effect.

We dont have coaching badges so that was not an issue with us.

Ethnic minorities can get coaching badges. It's not the institution's fault that only a few of them choose to.

 

[Charlie1]

Your problem with that argument is, if it's followed through it will lead to less opportunities for women, as men would have to be eligible for what are now ladies only sides.

Why? We're talking about coaching not playing. Where does it state you have to have a penis to coach/manage a football team?

 

[originallambrettaman]

Then a way to fix the institutional racism that is occurring would be to some how encourage a more diverse set of players to get their coaching badges. Certainly if minorities are not getting their coaching badges then they can not be hired for the job and a Rooney rule would have no effect.

We dont have coaching badges so that was not an issue with us.

We don't have a problem with institutional racism, you're making completely inaccurate assumptions based on stats that don't accurately reflect the situation.

The lack of good applicants is the issue, the Rooney Rule wouldn't help, as the managers the owners would be forced to interview would still be crap.

 

[Spook]

13% of the UK is non-white, 30% of English footballers are non white yet non-whites hold only .028% of manager jobs in the 3 levels below the PL. Clearly they are not just hiring on merit unless you think that non-whites are unable to do the job, which is in itself racism.

Ah, you're accusing me of racism now.

Thankfully, the UK isn't the US, and our sports and sporting institutions are different.

 

[ellewoods]

Ethnic minorities can get coaching badges. It's not the institution's fault that only a few of them choose to.

You actually can have institutional racism in that situation. If for instance there were rules that had been in place that forbid minorities getting coaching badges and the legacy of that was a hindrance in the future. If for instance there was a belief in minority communities that there where not equal hiring practices and that was a hindrance to people trying to get them. Institutional racism does not only involve the institution in question nor only rules that are on paper.

 

[ellewoods]

Ah, you're accusing me of racism now.

Thankfully, the UK isn't the US, and our sports and sporting institutions are different.

I am not accusing you of racism that was worded wrong. We are only having a discussion and not accusing anyone of anything.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Why? We're talking about coaching not playing. Where does it state you have to have a penis to coach/manage a football team?

The first Woman coach of a Men's professional team only lasted about a week, though Clermont Foot must be very keen on having a female manager as they've appointed another one now(though I'm not sure how long she'll last, they're currently only out of the Ligue 2 relegation zone on goal difference).

 

[DMD]

You actually can have institutional racism in that situation. If for instance there were rules that had been in place that forbid minorities getting coaching badges and the legacy of that was a hindrance in the future. If for instance there was a belief in minority communities that there where not equal hiring practices and that was a hindrance to people trying to get them. Institutional racism does not only involve the institution in question nor only rules that are on paper.

Please post examples of this racism in UK football you talk of.

 

[Spook]

You actually can have institutional racism in that situation. If for instance there were rules that had been in place that forbid minorities getting coaching badges and the legacy of that was a hindrance in the future. If for instance there was a belief in minority communities that there where not equal hiring practices and that was a hindrance to people trying to get them. Institutional racism does not only involve the institution in question nor only rules that are on paper.

That's their fault if they don't apply.

 

[ellewoods]

The lack of good applicants is the issue, the Rooney Rule wouldn't help, as the managers the owners would be forced to interview would still be crap.

Is it a lack of good applicants in your opinion? I ask because it seems that coaches are fired left and right in the English game. It almost seems that no applicant is good enough for the job the way managers are treated.

 

[ellewoods]

That's their fault if they don't apply.

True. But that enables programs or conversations to occur to fix that belief and then fix the situation. Perhaps that is something that is already going on as there minority players at our club that are right now getting theirs.

Im not arguing the Rooney rule would work for you remember just that the Rooney rule worked for us and that your %'s are a problem. Not necessarily a problem that needs a rule to be implemented to fix either.

 

[Charlie1]

The first Woman coach of a Men's professional team only lasted about a week, though Clermont Foot must be very keen on having a female manager as they've appointed another one now(though I'm not sure how long she'll last, they're currently only out of the Ligue 2 relegation zone on goal difference).

Any male managers only lasted a week (or less)? If the answer is yes then what point are you making exactly?

 

[originallambrettaman]

Is it a lack of good applicants in your opinion? I ask because it seems that coaches are fired left and right in the English game. It almost seems that no applicant is good enough for the job the way managers are treated.

It's a results business, most clubs simply can't afford to get relegated, so if a manager is not performing, they get the boot.

This, combined with the large amount of professional football clubs we have here, means there's a lot of opportunities. When there's good black candidates they'll get the jobs, plenty have been given opportunities in the past, unfortunately most of them have ballsed it up.

 

[ellewoods]

Well fun discussion but I got to go out and clear brush.

Keep debating fellas.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Any male managers only lasted a week (or less)? If the answer is yes then what point are you making exactly?

I wasn't really making a point, other than you obviously don't need a penis as a Woman was given the opportunity to manage a professional Men's team, it's a shame she didn't really take advantage of the opportunity. And she had a tash.

 

[Jimmy Graham's bald head]

Really?

The Championship, League One, and League Two have 72 teams with 2 minority managers. That is .028%

How do you explain that?

2 out of 72 is 2.8%

 

[Charlie1]

I wasn't really making a point, other than you obviously don't need a penis as a Woman was given the opportunity to manage a professional Men's team, it's a shame she didn't really take advantage of the opportunity. And she had a tash.

Fair enough. It is a shame she didn't take the chance, I don't know the reasons behind her decision. But thats one woman given the chance out of hundreds/thousands of clubs. Hardly enough to make an argument for or against really. If there were lots of wonen coaching at higher levels failing like a lot of the male coaches do then that would be different.