Striker problem or not?

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BSG said:
Just checked and you are right he played 34 games (league) which is a surprise to me... still the I think he under performed for large parts of the season
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Early part of the season he was not great, but second half he was, I think his problem was that he was affected by injury early into the season and he did not get any good form until after 20 games into the season, however he still did get a few goals, but the second half of the season he was the Whelpdale we expected, hopefully we will see that Whelpdale and if we do we will be fine. Lee on the other hand done well in the games he played but he needs to play more, I think he played just over 30 in the league and cup which is not enough, however he missed 6 in total due to suspension which is poor, he had 2 or 3 little injuries during the season which caused him to miss the odd few games but he can do better, when he plays he is instrumental to how we play, if he plays well we normally win and if not we normally draw or lose so a Charlie Lee on form next season could get us promotion. One thing with Lee I didn't expect was the goals he got, I think he got 6 which is good for a player in his position, I thought he was the type of player that may only get 1 or 2 in a season but are special goals.
 
BSG said:
Just checked and you are right he played 34 games (league) which is a surprise to me... still the I think he under performed for large parts of the season
Click to expand...
BSG - I think the 'underperforming accusations do not have to stop at any one/two players. I personally think we threw away the chance of promotion as Hess continued to give several players more chances than they deserved - costing valuable dropped points ( 5 league defeats in a row in mid season - followed by 13 points out of the last 30 .) The players have some responsibility - but maybe some were allowed to play within too much comfort, knowing that talk of a cull by Hess was ( for too long ) just that - talk !
To give credit to Lee & Whelpdale - they did start to show some of their ability towards the end of last season - but need to do so on a regular basis. I would like to think that Allen will not suffer fools quite so gladly.
 
alwaysright said:
BSG - I think the 'underperforming accusations do not have to stop at any one/two players. I personally think we threw away the chance of promotion as Hess continued to give several players more chances than they deserved - costing valuable dropped points ( 5 league defeats in a row in mid season - followed by 13 points out of the last 30 .) The players have some responsibility - but maybe some were allowed to play within too much comfort, knowing that talk of a cull by Hess was ( for too long ) just that - talk !
To give credit to Lee & Whelpdale - they did start to show some of their ability towards the end of last season - but need to do so on a regular basis. I would like to think that Allen will not suffer fools quite so gladly.
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Yeah I agree with what you are saying, most of the team has to take part of the blame, main ones are Frampton, Montrose, Fish and Martin who were at fault as they played a lot and did not perform well enough, I personally hope Frampton does not play much this season.
 
HOADIE_BOI said:
Early part of the season he was not great, but second half he was, I think his problem was that he was affected by injury early into the season and he did not get any good form until after 20 games into the season, however he still did get a few goals, but the second half of the season he was the Whelpdale we expected, hopefully we will see that Whelpdale and if we do we will be fine. Lee on the other hand done well in the games he played but he needs to play more, I think he played just over 30 in the league and cup which is not enough, however he missed 6 in total due to suspension which is poor, he had 2 or 3 little injuries during the season which caused him to miss the odd few games but he can do better, when he plays he is instrumental to how we play, if he plays well we normally win and if not we normally draw or lose so a Charlie Lee on form next season could get us promotion. One thing with Lee I didn't expect was the goals he got, I think he got 6 which is good for a player in his position, I thought he was the type of player that may only get 1 or 2 in a season but are special goals.
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whelps & lee have already stated that there early season form was down to the weight of expectations and pressure, which they didn't handle well at all...there words not mine !
seem to remember them saying they didn't have that pressure when on loan to us.

they did improve as time went on though last season and i feel they will handle matters differently this time round and help our push for success <ok>
 
HOADIE_BOI said:
You are being too harsh on Whelpdale, I am sure he played nearly 40 games in cup and League, about 38 or 39 so he is no problem, I think he got 13 goals which is brilliant for a midfielder so you should give him credit. On the other hand Lee is a great player and is key when he plays but he does need to play more and I agree with you partly about him, not that he is bad, he just needs to sort out the discipline and improve his fitness to prevent picking up as many injuries, something many of the players need to do. Whelpdale is not the problem, yeah he didn't start the season great but you can't fault him in the last 20 games, he was on top form.
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Hoadie - i don't wish to seem disrespectful but someone has got to start challenging your comments, because to be quite honest you seem to spout a lot of stuff that I cannot even remember, even having been to all but one home game last season.

How do you know that you cannot fault Whelpdale in the last 20 games, was you there at every one of them? 'he was on top form'

So let's start of nice and easy for you then...he was on top form for the last twenty games, so where was he against Morecambe then? You don't have to answer that, I actually know he was injured.

So he didn't start the season great but you can't fault him in the last 20 games, well no I suppose your right, when he's injured! Now looking at the stats in the same way you must obviously be doing and within those 20 games...need I mention Hereford, I suggest you go away and have a look. No save you the trouble...he was in such top form we were losing until O'Lee came on. Of those 20 games, we failed to take all three points in about 12 of them, if he was on top form the rest of the team must have been really s...(that word I will not say)

So in a matter of minutes, I've got your 20 games down to 18 and I haven't even made any effort to try. Much like most of your comments.

You better hurry up and reply here Hoadie, I've just taken your discussion ender points on another one of my threads you've taken over.
 
brb I think the lack of actual football is getting to you. Any way not long until we can all get behind the lads again.

Back to the tread though, until Birchall gets some games it's very difficult for anyone to know how he'll react, I completely agree with them being cautious at training for it would dreadful for him to pick up another injury, slow and steady. Also I'd be very surprised if very much ball work and attacking/defensive drills have been done in the week they have been back. He's probably chomping at the bit to get going and his over enthusiasm could be his biggest enemy at this point. Even so I do feel an extra body up top is needed we've been quite fortunate in the loan market the past couple of years and I think we'll see that again this year as it's actually the easier/cheaper way to get a better quality of player in. No denying that other areas need strengthening too and I'm sure that the more time that MA is with the players the more he'll know what he wants to improve the team.

UTG
 
So looks like hes had enough at the cobblers. Personally id love to see him back at gills but dont really think thats the answer i still think we need the following

Left back
2 wingers
2 strikers

And bundles of pace.
Shame mark marshall is suspended cos i would like to think hes the sort of player we could look at.
 
alwaysright said:
BSG - I think the 'underperforming accusations do not have to stop at any one/two players. I personally think we threw away the chance of promotion as Hess continued to give several players more chances than they deserved - costing valuable dropped points ( 5 league defeats in a row in mid season - followed by 13 points out of the last 30 .) The players have some responsibility - but maybe some were allowed to play within too much comfort, knowing that talk of a cull by Hess was ( for too long ) just that - talk !
To give credit to Lee & Whelpdale - they did start to show some of their ability towards the end of last season - but need to do so on a regular basis. I would like to think that Allen will not suffer fools quite so gladly.
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Always you are correct again. The whole team was guilty of underperforming (maybe with the exception of Jackman). However I have been reeading time and time again that many on her feel that the midfield doesn't not need strengthening and somehow Lee and Whelpdale seemed to have divine protection from the criticism that many other players were subject, I am just redressing the balance.
 
looking at the team and who i would want come the first game and also taking on board allen's comments that the starting eleven need to be addressed.
from what we have, i'd go with...

gazzaniga
essam, jackman,
payne, lee, whelpdale,
maybe birchall as we don't know yet ?

that for me is all i'd play and then we need to be add to and until that happens we won't get out of this division !

obviously a couple coming through...dack, miller who need to step up now, but the rest are not going to help our cause on a regular basis.

if whelps, jackman, lee and jack payne don't hit the ground running then our season could be about as good as our last one...though martin allen is starting to grow on me and may give us a lift...just a shame the rest of the squad won't !!!
 
dad_is_always_right said:
So looks like hes had enough at the cobblers. Personally id love to see him back at gills but dont really think thats the answer i still think we need the following

Left back
2 wingers
2 strikers

And bundles of pace.
Shame mark marshall is suspended cos i would like to think hes the sort of player we could look at.
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He's also the kind of player to return to clubs after one season! Think he is on his way up to League 1 with someone like Orient
 
I don't think there will be any players performing below their best (at least for more than a game or two) with MA in charge or they're be on their bikes sharpish.Some may not be good enough but being below par he won't tolerate. We are going to be top dogs this season and the players are going to have to realise that. Give Martin half a dozen games and he'll have the wheat sorted from the chaff. Reputations will mean nothing to our manager, and I can't see him having favourites.
 
Heading back towards the main subject of strikers, now that Eastwood has returned to Southend which was always likely who people think they would like us to try and sign then? For me I think it would be a backwards step if we were to try and sign Bayo again. Ok he's got the goals in him but the chances are we would result into playing hoofball too much and teams finding us too predictable. Allen was known for playing direct football at Brentford anyways and his signing could make us fall back into that hole. The return of Patrick Agyemang would be high up on my wish list but wages/demand for the player may warrant otherwise. I would still like Mad Dog to give Lyle Taylor a trial so he can look at him still.
 
I agree, i dont want Bayo back. He willingly left us to join a worse team that always finishes lower in the league than us. So he cleary has no respect for us or wants to play for the club.

I would be happy with Agyemang. Hes a good player but maybe out of our budget.
 
dad_is_always_right said:
So looks like hes had enough at the cobblers. Personally id love to see him back at gills but dont really think thats the answer i still think we need the following

Left back
2 wingers
2 strikers

And bundles of pace.
Shame mark marshall is suspended cos i would like to think hes the sort of player we could look at.
Click to expand...
I think two wingers may be a bit of a luxury - although I'd be happy for one with pace. We might only be able to afford one striker - so we need to choose wisely.I don't think we need Bayo - if we are to deploy the longball then Kedwell is good for that - but needs a player to feed off him - hopefully Birchall can profit. Of course we will need cover in central defence - as we need to replace at least one of Richards, Lawrence and King ( <wah> ) - and hoping that Frampton can improve on last season ( sorry Andy, but you weren't very good - please prove me wrong this year )





ps - where the hell have you been - only 3 posts in 8 months !
 
Gills scored 79 goals last season, easily the highest in the league, and of these just 19 came from the "temps" (Tomlin, Kouffour and Nouble) which was hardly disproportionate. 'All this happened without Birchall who was scheduled to be goalscorer in chief so on the face of it, goalscoring does not look to be Allen's priority at all. Birchall will need the patience of the crowd for several weeks but might be expected to come good given time.
Allen's clear priority is to reduce goals conceded and that is where the budget (to the extent there is one) is going to be spent. Statistics tell a story which it is foolish to ignore.
 
I'm going to follow BRB's manner and crack the proverbial whip here and look at the way we appear to have digressed.

Personally, I find it shocking that so far we have seemingly overlooked the real issue at hand here. Not the striker problem, but the distinct lack of service. I don't know how many of you see this on a weekly basis and tend to agree BUT with the exception of say Danny Jackman (and even he has his off days) we have very little in terms of a creative outlet when it comes to set plays and crosses from wide positions.

Now I agree with the need for wingers. It's a tricky situation because two may be too many, however have one winger on one side and a central player on the other and you lose balance and shape. But whoever you bring in you need to make sure that they have the drive and the ambition to go forward and give defenders some problems. Nouble did it, Rooney did it on occasions in a very headless-chicken sort of manner, but not since the likes of Barcham and Matt Jarvis have we really had somebody with genuine pace who can frighten defenders on a counter attack or deliver an attacking cross. Kedwell could have a field day playing alongside somebody that can.

Strikers? Apologies I'm feeling lazy and can't be bothered to scroll up to see who mentioned it, but I agree that we will certainly require 4. Now that Kedwell has played a full season in the Football League, his first lest we forget, I fully back him to kick on in his second season fully fit and raring to go. Centre the attacking force around him, either play Birchall off of him and see if they form a partnership together, or that's where we look for other options. Somebody who can get in behind defenders and has a natural eye for goal, a la McDonald or Jackson. Problem being is that any striker worth their salt and who can do this at league level is probably already banging them in elsewhere.

I don't reckon that there's an awful lot of money at MA's disposal but I fully back him to look at some exciting options.
 
bristol407 said:
Gills scored 79 goals last season, easily the highest in the league, and of these just 19 came from the "temps" (Tomlin, Kouffour and Nouble) which was hardly disproportionate. 'All this happened without Birchall who was scheduled to be goalscorer in chief so on the face of it, goalscoring does not look to be Allen's priority at all. Birchall will need the patience of the crowd for several weeks but might be expected to come good given time.
Allen's clear priority is to reduce goals conceded and that is where the budget (to the extent there is one) is going to be spent. Statistics tell a story which it is foolish to ignore.
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you make a valid point about where the goals came from but the point is without these loan/temp players we have no cover in the striker positon or certainly any of any note. yes we are never going to have the luxuary of 3 20 goal a season strikers in the club but we need some cover as much as anything given we have one young inexperienced striker and another striker (who will be heavily relied upon to get the goals) who hasnt played league football for a while and is coming off a serious injury!!

going back to the 19 goals from temps they all really came through different parts of the season as well as i remember and therefore could be counted as our 20 goal a season striker!!
 
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