So, I hope most of you on here know me well enough to understand that I'm neither in the "meltdown" camp nor am I in the "Firmly not allowed to criticise" camp. I would consider myself fairly well to analyse placed, having been to every game this season bar Newcastle and Sunderland and would like to share my thoughts as to where I see our issues at the moment: 1) Even when we were on our excellent run, something wasn't quite right. Swansea and Chelsea apart, I really don't feel like we've played well yet this season. Last year we were flying at times and a real pleasure to watch. This year it has been so much more laboured. 2) We are almost embarrassingly exposed to "transition" football. I'm not necessarily talking about counter-attacking teams but instead teams who get the ball out quickly and run at us at pace. We were woefully exposed against Stoke, Man City and Liverpool and often made to look like we were running on quicksand by Leicester (second half) and Palace this weekend. In a league where teams are increasingly playing like this, it's suicidal to not have a tactical response. 3) I ask myself why this is suddenly the case and I've come up with two answers. Firstly, the loss of Morgan's mobility and, even more crucially, ability to read a game is something we've woefully failed to replace. Romeu fights (better than anybody else vs Palace) but just lacks the mobility and game-management that we crave in that position. Secondly, Clyne was a huge player for us in terms of getting back at players and putting in meaningful tackles. Cedric is quick but just seems to get brushed off the ball once he's tracked back. Arnautovic absolutely tore him apart repeatedly. 4) Why don't we transition like Stoke? Answer is two fold: Firstly, we have no midfield distributor to ping the early passes into space. Secondly, Pelle slows us down horrendously. Look at the way Bojan led the line. Bolasie played right up there this weekend and caused us real issues. As did Vardy and Martial previously. We can't do that to teams at the moment. He can be an excellent targetman but if we use him like that then Mane should be playing right next to him (see Ighalo & Deeney) 5) Formation. When we play Vic and Romeu, we look too much like a 4-2-4 set-up who teams just tear through en masse. When we don't, we lack any sort of support for Big Vic and he gets overrun. How do we solve that midfield balance quandary? 6) The defence looks dodgy. Fonte's positioning has seemingly deserted him and Maya is a walking mistake. Cedric is too lightweight and Bertrand is struggling, I think, as a result of the other struggles. I actually think Cedric will come good and I'm a huge fan of Betrand. Just a matter of time until Fonte settles again so I'm relatively optimistic that we'll come good in this area soon enough. 7) Really not a fan of Stekkers. I'd love somebody to come out with a save:shot % if he isn't last in the BPL I'll eat my hat. 8) The good points are that Mane looks excellent, we just desperately need some end product because nobody else looks likely to provide any sort of spark. I think Van Dijk encourages us to play from the back and Gazza was excellent on Saturday which could answer concern number 7. Has anybody else been thinking that we just haven't looked at it consistently this season? I think we look significantly weaker than the previous 2 years and worryingly predictable at the moment. Would love to hear your views - am I going over-the-top or do we have reason for frustration?
I don't think we tend to look like 4-2-4 personally. Davis is always playing in the three behind the centre forward when we play a back four, which prevents that happening. Tadic also tends to play like a left midfielder, rather than a left winger. Mane should always be played central imo, so he can support Pelle more. He's more dangerous running from central also. Davis on the right to protect the right back and to accommodate Mane. Don't forget Mane did play as a second striker against Palace, didn't work. But he wasn't helped by us playing a back three. I find it interesting Van Dijk has escaped criticism from you. Despite you having a go at Yoshida and Fonte. Van Dijk made two horrendous, basic, errors recently to literally gift tap ins. Fonte was too hesitant and got done by Bolassie in the last game. But it still shouldn't have been a goal. Van Dijk went walk about. Cedric isn't too lightweight. These days you want full back to have stamina, agility and pace. You need to be light for that. And to be good on the ball and tackle well. Are you saying almost every top side has full backs that are 'too lightweight'? Too lightweight suggests you think he isn't physical enough to play at this level, otherwise you'd have just said lightweight. Too lightweight for what? But then you say he will come good, so I assume you just meant he needs to work on his strength? I don't want to see Stekelenburg back in the side unless Gazzaniga has a mare now. Stekelenburg's looked less mobile than my grandad lately and is getting older. Gazzaniga is actually our keeper, young and improving.
Without doubt we are weaker than the previous 2 years which is understandable considering the players we have sold. Last season we recruited very well, this season we haven't, besides VVD the rest seem inadequate or are taking longer to settle than last years recruits. Spending £4M on two right backs has bitten us on the bum, it's a position we've struggled with this season which imo has cost us points. Unfortunately for us there are a few other teams who have recruited well and are therefore are above us in the table. I don't expect our current position in the league to change too much come the end of the season but saying that it's not the end of the world. After a meteoric rise over the last few seasons a dip was inevitable at some point. It's not a massive dip but our recruitment next summer will be vital to get us on an uphill curve again. Also quite unusual for us, we have no youngsters anywhere near good enough to get on the bench let alone the first team.
Interesting response. I really think Fonte has been the weaker of the two centre backs. His position for Bojan's goal was comical. His distribution against Villa led directly to the corner that led to the goal and I thought VVD outshone him again at Palace. Completely agree about Mane being central. I think Davis has gone missing recently at times and the result has been a loss of shape. He's one of my favourite players but I think sometimes he's unsure l whether or not to commit to an attack or cover our ailing CDM's. I think Cedric, at this moment is too lightweight and is making a habit of being pushed off the ball. I think he has the potential to become a better manager of the game to defend in a more wiley way. Clyne was good at that and so is Bertrand. They rarely look as constantly exposed as Cedric does.
Agree with the theme of your post SJ; do not feel the need to discuss the specific's of certain players, as its not about the individuals week in and out, but about the squad. Sure individuals influence the game positively and negatively, but previously we have played to the strength of our squad, this season we seem unable to work out what works best for us. All over the pitch we have issues; defence is porous, the midfield struggle to gain ascendancy and often the attack fails in the final third to either create chances or retain possession. Genuinely perplexed; the squad is now more experienced in the EPL this season, its a young squad that should be maturing, yet we lack that cutting edge we had last season. As you have written its not about meltdown or not meeting unrealistic expectations, we are no longer an attractive team to watch playing with pace and precision as we were. I watch each game every week but no longer the anticipation of being entertained, I watch now out of loyalty to the team I have followed for about 50 years. I will continue to do so and hope we turn a corner and get back to how we were. Obviously, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but something is not right.
Like others, I haven't felt confident in the way we play even when we were getting results earlier in the season. Our entertainment levels are definitely down this season...we have been spoilt for several years. I'm hoping this is a just an off season and that we manage to plug away as best we can and finish mid-table. My fear is that we will not be either skilled enough or desperate enough/gutsy enough to churn out results. Still early days...this is where Koeman earns his corn.
A lot of it is confidence. We have been playing in a similar way since halfway through last season but as we continued winning, due to a solid defence, noone cared/noticed. You cannot lose three of your four key players from the defensive unit and expect to be as solid (Foster injured, Clyne, Alderweireld and Schneiderlin).
I think our main problem is weve fallen in to the 'replace your best players' with 2 not as good players Clyne - Cedric/Martina Schneiderlin - Romeu/Clasie Alderweireld - Van Dijk/Caulker It never works , we actually need to spend some proper money on top class replacements, Van Dijk aside the recruitment in the summer was woeful.
With our obvious business model we are always in danger of a transfer window where the players aren't as good as we thought/take longer to settle. This isn't really a huge issue as long as we stay up as just being in the PL is enough to attract players from far bigger clubs than us who are based abroad. The key thing will be if last summers transfer window was a bit of a fluke, or if the black box really is as good as some make out. We clearly don't pay the wages of any of the other similar sized teams in the PL so finding players who are unproven in a top league is clearly our strategy
No it doesn't work and that's why our first eleven is not as good as the last two seasons. With an Europa league campaign anticipated the Club probably felt we needed a balance between quality as well as quantity, task made harder by losing three quality players. I feel that's what's done us this year...as you say trying to get two for the price of one. It's been a learning curve with European commitments (though there weren't many). As I posted above it's a dip which can and will need to be rectified by quality signings next summer.
Well, let's take an impartial view. What does the money say? I've mentioned before that there is a huge, truly huge, body of evidence that shows that a betting exchange (for example Betfair exchange) pretty much exactly reflects the probability of something happening. I'm not going to go deeply into it but it's fair to say that it's true. Well, here's the news. Betfair has our percentage chance of a top ten finish at 62%. It also has a top six finish as an 18% chance. Relegation is a 1.5% chance. So the money certainly doesn't think it's all over. Vin
One week ago you posted we needed to sign a new keeper now, so he could challenge Stekkers for the position and we could decide at the end of the season which one to sign. Now, after one game, Paulo is our saviour and our future. I hope he is by the way, but this is exactly what frustrates me and why it is easy to be a manager on a forum, during a game and game to game.
Keepers with more than ten appearances, Stek 59% save:shot on target ratio, joint bottom with Ruddy and Boruc(!). For comparison, best are: Cech, Butland, at 83% Remember that there's obviously no reflection ref quality - just raw figures. Also, Equally interestingly, Stek has faced the lowest number of shots on target per game played, which suggests our defence is less porous than people on here might perceive. e&oe, all from a rapid check on data from the premier league website. Remember that a shot on target might be blocked and hence not recorded as saved. Etc,. etc, The value of your investment may go down as well as up... Data fromhere: http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/sta...G&pos=0&team=0&splitType=0&sort=4&sortOrder=0 Vin
Look who's top of the EPL. Leicester, who have spent around 22m on their squad. Perhaps the problem is with the recruitment. For all the good signings Saints have made there have been far too many flops that have cost the club megabucks Ramirez (11m), Osvaldo (12m or thereabouts), Forren (4m) At the moment the jury is out on Cedric, Juanmi, Classie, Tadic, and Long. That is an incredibly high number of players that have failed or are still waiting to deliver. Who is responsible for this? Les Reed?
Did you just say the jury is out on Tadic? FFS, we almost knighted Les a few months back, now he can't do his job. When will people stop over dramatising everything?
Wouldn't say that the jury is out on Tadic. Further, part of the problem is that those are no longer megabucks signings...they're mid-tier acquisitions, the sort of money you spend on a player who did well in a weaker league, or has some sort of flaw (or contract situation) that pushes down their price a touch. If 5m gets you a good squad player, you're doing rather well in the grand scheme, and 8-15m players flop all the time. If anything, we were spoiled by last summer; having that many purchases come off immediately isn't the norm, in any price range.
To be fair you've bucked the trend of spending heavily to get up the league and have relied on your academy for quality and spent small - fair amounts on scouted players. You'd previously managed to maintain or better the key players which you have sold. That's a big ask to keep doing year on year.
Last season we had a brilliant first 11 with maybe 2 or 3 decent subs backed up by our academy , we all moaned that there was no squad depth, but i think we went too far the other way our best youth players now dont get a game and our bench is packed with sub standard players. For the record to say the jury is out on Tadic and Long is unfair , Tadic is probably our most creative player and Long plays out of position most games he never moans and he adds to the squad. We are not a poor side by any means and those worried about us going down are silly we will finish mid way, however the black box that we all raved about has thrown us some duds in my opinion Caulker is terrible send him back Steklenburg is no better than Gazzanigga Cedric could be ok but is nowhere near as good as Clyne was Juanmi needs games either here or out on loan Martina is not a premier league player Clasie has some potential but he is not good enough to fill schneiderlin's boots and that will always be his problem Romeu is a good sub/back up for victor Van Dijk has been very good. Wanyama is off the boil, and im sorry to say Fonte has not been himself this year. Teams have worked us out , we need a plan B for games and we need a plan for when Pelle goes through his dry spells.
