A "New Approach To Debating" - Part Two.

From: arklesupreme

It doesn't count just as Mill House's win over Arkle in the 1963 Hennessy Gold Cup Chase was meaningless as Pat Taaffe bet Willie Robinson straight after the race that he would beat his unbeaten Champion in the 1964 Gold Cup...which of course he did !!

New Approach was injured because of the firm ground he encountered at the Curragh which as Bolger said was like a road and he should never have run him there !

No matter...he came back and proved himself......BIG-TIME in the Derby and Champion Stakes breaking the Newmarket track record in the process.....quite incredible considering he had been injured and unable to race for 3 months !

From: Mr X Yes my bad forgot about the meeting at 2. Curtain Call 2nd ?. What about the Irish Guineas then or does that 1 3/4 length defeat not count because of the ground. Anyways off to bed now to watch MOTD speak tomorrow.

From: arklesupreme
Incorrect Mr X....HTN 2 New Approach 1 on head to heads but that was only over 7 furlongs and a mile as they knew HTN had no chance of beating New Approach over any further distance with just a nose separating them in the Guineas !

THAT is far different to the drubbings Denman gave Kauto Star in 3 out of their 4 clashes with 1 defeat following Denmans return from injury also !

Those are the FACTS of the matter !!

From: Mr X
RATINGS - YAWN. Anyone recieving these emails who didn't know Andy from 606 he used to post the scores of horses when they raced against each other to settle arguments. Henrythenavigator 2 New Approach 0. Not my idea of how to settle it but this is what you do isn't it and just recently you sent an email saying it would have been denman having the better h2h record over Kauto. As for Twice Over he is good on his day but can also run stinkers


From: arklesupremeOf course being 2 year old Champion doesn't mean NOTHING !!!

How naive can you be and IF HTN had been a superior horse to New Approach he would have been rated above him at the end of their 3 year old career also !!

New Approach is one of the greatest Derby and Champion Stakes winners ever seen.......simples !!

Watch BOTH races again.....and Twice Over paid him the greatest compliment by winning the next two Champion Stakes also !

From: Mr X
Andy you were the one who started bringing Youmzain in to it as a form line which you know is wrong. I liked New Approach but if ever anyone is overhyping a horse it is you with him. Henry put him in his place twice and I know you are dying to bring the ground in as an excuse for the Irish guineas defeat. I am sure you are aware that racing has changed Andrew being champion 2yo means nothing at all now and I mean nothing its all about the 3yo career.

From: arklesupreme
No need to resort to exaggeration now and bringing other horses into the debate !

At least you concede that Canford Cliffs would have beaten STS over a mile....the rest is up to you.....I am just pleased to CONFIRM that New Approach was the first horse to be Champion 2 year old and Champion 3 year old since Reference Point in 1987 ...I have never doubted that Sea The Stars was a class horse in his one season wonder though had he been racing in the same season as New Approach,Canford Cliffs,Zarkava and Frankel then it would have been a different matter altogether !

Jog on with your exaggerated comments however !

From: Mr X
Andy

Out of my depth my arse maybe in terms of the 1950s but not on current racing no chance what so ever. Is Chabal still going to be a superstar haha ?. I will answer your questions in my personal opinion. I don't think STS would have beat Canford Cliffs over 1m and I think he would have beaten Zarkava over 1m4f. I would be more confident he would have beaten New Approach over 1m4f though. Obviously just my opinion is that ok with you ? or are you going to reply saying he wouldn't have FACT. I wouldn't be surprised if you still think Strong Suit is a great. Would he have beaten STS over a mile ? LOL

From: arklesupreme
So NO ANSWER to my questions ??

No surprise really...as you are out of your depth here and know I am making valid comments on all counts whilst you TRY to pick holes in the form of a horse who returned from injury and was rated as thew best Jim Bolger ever trained including St Jovite a 12 lengths Irish Derby winner and Teofilo !!

Far more research required by you about horses I actually saw race...unlike you who has just read about them if that !

Meanwhile Savage was put in his place by me as he keeps missing the point as I never stated that ANY team had a divine right to be in the Premiership...just the FACT that Sheffield Wednesday remain a far superior club to the likes of Barnsley and Doncaster and that it IS just as embarrassing for us to be a division below them as it would be for Arsenal and Spurs to be a division below the likes of Brentford and Charlton or in your case Newcastle and Sunderland to be a division below the likes of Hartlepool and Darlington !

Check the football histories and achievements of ALL clubs concerned and you will see I am right.......AGAIN.....and the fellow Sheff Wed fan called me a numpty on the basis of how Savage TRIED to deflect what I was actually saying !

As I stated on the programme....of course the likes of Man United, Liverpool, Man City, Everton, Arsenal, Spurs etc would love to see Barnsley or Doncaster in the Premiership rather than Sheffield Wednesday !!!!

Yeah....of course they would.....we had another 27000 at Hillsborough today a crowd larger than the majority of Premiership clubs get these days with only Newcastle,Sunderland Villa and ,Chelsea to add to those already mentioned in the Premiership getting larger home gates this season !

 

Tam: Glad to hear the winners are still rolling-in for SA. He doesn't change at all, heard it all before, almost word-for-word, on the old 606. Mr X gives him a right old go though. Hope SA has been tipping a few of his "winners" to Robbie Savage..............................

please log in to view this image

 

AS has more holes in his thinking than you could poke a stick at. It frustrates me no end to read some of the illogical opinions he uses as fact. But I have to say, when it comes to rhetoric, he played Mr X off a break. AS is an old hand at this, Mr X went in with out any real preparation and came off looking like a lightweight.

 

The man is nuts, completely and utterly nuts. The only thing he needs is a padded soundproof cell so that nobody can hear him spouting his rubbish anymore!

Sometimes it is just a little amusing . . .

. . . mostly it just makes you want to cry!

 

PersonallyIdidn'tseeaproblemwithit.

 

The only thing I would add is that SA is clearly adept at copying and pasting.

Didn't need to read it. Saw the beginning and knew exactly what was coming.

Stock phrase 17, Stock phrase 3, Stock phrase 5 etc. etc. and, of course, EOS and FACT. Stuck needle springs to mind.

 

I think I'll give this thread a few days, close it but keep it as a museum piece.

 

Jolly good idea. New forum section "Sports Museum Pieces".

Cyc: I, along with others, as can be seen from the above comments, often had problems, not with his grammar, but with the syntax he employed. Normally Idontgiveahoot, but he could raise my ire on any subject at the drop of a hat! When I brought-up the syntax issue once, in defence of a fellow member who was being castigated for grammar misuse, he was apoplectic.....................

 

Who you playing RV?.....................................................

(Say, that's a funny name, Ameobi. Sort of gives me cramps a bit..................)

 

I think the guy needs help, seriously clear signs of mental instability for me.....

 

I miss him.

He's a legend...EOS.

 

He was a legend but in the end it simply got too much. He would insult people and moan when he was insulted back, he constantly belittled people's intelligence when his ability to debate put one in mind of a three year old having a discussion with their imaginary frined, he boasted about how great his life was and criticised others for theirs and, worst of all was totally incapable of ever even trying to reach some form of compromise - everything was black and white to him. The great thing about this forum is that, although we all have our own opinions, on the whole we try to be fair and even handed to all horses, owners, trainers n and jockeys (and before anyone says it, I said "on the whole - I am well aware of my odd blind prejudice).

 

who?

 

It took an awful lot to get banned by the old BBC606 horseracing forum. He managed it in the end. The "invitation to a fistfight" merchants excepted, I can only think of two who got themselves banned?

 

To close this off on my part, SA writes to suit himself, for example, in Part 1 of this thread he wrote:

"I have not forgotten Sea The Stars unique achievement of winning 2000 Guineas,Derby and Arc in the same season,.............."

............he conveniently forgot to say "plus the Irish Champion Stakes, the Juddmonte International, and the Eclipse Stakes". Good grief! He really did make an ass of himself with Sea The Stars (six major Group 1's in one season). Just watched his final race, the Arc, absolutely amazing. I quite honestly gave him no chance at the halfway point.

 

Reebok - I'm sure that we have all felt exactly like that at various times with SA, the problem is that once you engage (raise a challenge) with him he will cling like a limpet and not let go, his repetetive arguing would drain every ounce of energy out of you, and occasionally he would resort to name calling, question your intellect and fail to listen to any reason.
No forum needs him because he doesn't want to debate, he has no interest in others views, in his world he is right and everyone else is wrong.
I may enter a discussion with a firm view but will happily listen and respect others opinion and on occasions altered my way of thinking through what I've heard/read, this is why I enter forums, SA (and others I know of) merely want to preach....