[video=youtube;F6lv2nwXHf4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lv2nwXHf4[/video]
from 1987-1990 the greatest ever era for milers.
from 1987-1990 the greatest ever era for milers.
A golden age
- Thread starter Dancingbraveforever
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Some great clips there DBF. Zilzal was some horse and would have been outstanding in almost any generation. For me the BC episode sums up why I think anyone with a horse that good is mad to take it to the Breeders Cup.
I just thought i would inform the Frankelteenies that there were actually some great milers before Frankel came along.
Yes Zilzal would have been hard to beat by any euro milers in history.
Yes Zilzal would have been hard to beat by any euro milers in history.
"I think Frankel is the best horse I've ever seen, with Blushing Groom and Shergar. I can't go further back than that as I wasn't around," added the 68-year-old.
Its official - Sir Henry Cecil is a Frankelteenie
Its official - Sir Henry Cecil is a Frankelteenie
Exactly what I was thinking. 68 years old and can't think of anything better than those. Must have been pissed at the time.
DB wise words....BTW I have the patent on the "frankelteenies" catchphrase..
...I suspect you borrowed from a poster on the RP web page who is my alter ego.
Thank you for posting DB. It is always interesting to see the greats of the past.
However, i fully confess to being a 'Frankelteenie' but that video did nothing but emphasise to me just how good Frankel really is, and just how priviledged we are to have him racing at the moment. To my eyes Frankel was far more impressive than Zilzal in the Sussex. Frankel had Canford Cliffs in opposition, and Zilzal had two horses that had been racing over 10f (according to the narrator). I am no expert on the form of those in opposition but Frankel beat a proven specialist miler in more convincing fashion than Zilzal deposed his field. He was impressive in the Jersey but that was only a Group 3, and it wouldn't compare favourably to say the demolition job of Excelebration in the Group 2 Hungerford Stakes. Similarly in the Breeder's Cup Mile he started slowly but i don't think that he lost as much ground as the video suggests. He was slow but was still in touch, and to my mind had every chance of taking the race, especially if he was the 'superstar miler' that has been claimed. Must admit he was decent in the QEII, but not massively impressive either. So to conclude, a very good horse but he wouldn't see which way Frankel went.
I will now retreat to the safety of my bunker with my hard hart and fire-proof clothing ready for the bombardment heading my way!
However, i fully confess to being a 'Frankelteenie' but that video did nothing but emphasise to me just how good Frankel really is, and just how priviledged we are to have him racing at the moment. To my eyes Frankel was far more impressive than Zilzal in the Sussex. Frankel had Canford Cliffs in opposition, and Zilzal had two horses that had been racing over 10f (according to the narrator). I am no expert on the form of those in opposition but Frankel beat a proven specialist miler in more convincing fashion than Zilzal deposed his field. He was impressive in the Jersey but that was only a Group 3, and it wouldn't compare favourably to say the demolition job of Excelebration in the Group 2 Hungerford Stakes. Similarly in the Breeder's Cup Mile he started slowly but i don't think that he lost as much ground as the video suggests. He was slow but was still in touch, and to my mind had every chance of taking the race, especially if he was the 'superstar miler' that has been claimed. Must admit he was decent in the QEII, but not massively impressive either. So to conclude, a very good horse but he wouldn't see which way Frankel went.
I will now retreat to the safety of my bunker with my hard hart and fire-proof clothing ready for the bombardment heading my way!
Zenyatta trust me when i say that Zilzals Sussex win was against a field that was far stronger than anything Frankel has ever faced in his career.
Frankel's best win was against a horse that has since proven to be injured.The horse that finished 2nd last in Zilzals sussex(Warning) was superior to Canford cliffs anyway.So thats just one horse lol.
But not to ridicule you because you think a great deal of Frankel and thats great.Hes a top horse.But you really had to have been around in the mid to late eighties to know what calibre of miler im referring too.
Frankel's best win was against a horse that has since proven to be injured.The horse that finished 2nd last in Zilzals sussex(Warning) was superior to Canford cliffs anyway.So thats just one horse lol.
But not to ridicule you because you think a great deal of Frankel and thats great.Hes a top horse.But you really had to have been around in the mid to late eighties to know what calibre of miler im referring too.
Warning won 2 Group 1s (his Sussex Stakes from Then Again who retired a maiden, and his QEII from Salse who Sir Henry finally coaxed to win a weak G1 in the Prix a Foret) to Canford Cliffs 5 - I struggle to see how that makes him the superior horse?
Zilzal also won only 2 Group 1s so has already been surpassed by Frankel.
On bare form none of the horses Zilzal beat had the same form in the book as Canford Cliffs - Polish Precedent raced only 6 times and won the Prix Du Moulin (G1) from Squill (G2 winner) and Cadeux Genereux (a sprinter who didn't stay the mile on Gd/soft). He also won the Marois (not sure if it was G1 in those days) from French Stress (a G3 winner) and Magic Gleam (won a G2 race). His other 3 wins were 2 G3s and a stakes race.
Probably the strongest horses Zilzal faced was Barry Hills Distant Relative who short-headed French 2000 GNS winner Linamix in the Moulin and Markofdistinction who won a QEII. But the fact that the horses vanquished by Zilzal and Polish Precedent were constantly beating each other tells me none of them were high class animals of the calibre of Canford Cliffs.
For me Canford Cliffs defeat of Goldikova at Ascot was his greatest performance and he came to Goodwood in top form, yet simply could not live with Frankel. Whether you believe the Ballydoyle excuses or not he was pulverised that day.
I was around at the time of Zilzal (I was born in 1968) and whilst I remember his victories he came nowhere near to delivering the performances we have seen from Frankel. Comparing horses across generations is pointless anyway in my book (ref Arkle ad nauseum).
Zilzal also won only 2 Group 1s so has already been surpassed by Frankel.
On bare form none of the horses Zilzal beat had the same form in the book as Canford Cliffs - Polish Precedent raced only 6 times and won the Prix Du Moulin (G1) from Squill (G2 winner) and Cadeux Genereux (a sprinter who didn't stay the mile on Gd/soft). He also won the Marois (not sure if it was G1 in those days) from French Stress (a G3 winner) and Magic Gleam (won a G2 race). His other 3 wins were 2 G3s and a stakes race.
Probably the strongest horses Zilzal faced was Barry Hills Distant Relative who short-headed French 2000 GNS winner Linamix in the Moulin and Markofdistinction who won a QEII. But the fact that the horses vanquished by Zilzal and Polish Precedent were constantly beating each other tells me none of them were high class animals of the calibre of Canford Cliffs.
For me Canford Cliffs defeat of Goldikova at Ascot was his greatest performance and he came to Goodwood in top form, yet simply could not live with Frankel. Whether you believe the Ballydoyle excuses or not he was pulverised that day.
I was around at the time of Zilzal (I was born in 1968) and whilst I remember his victories he came nowhere near to delivering the performances we have seen from Frankel. Comparing horses across generations is pointless anyway in my book (ref Arkle ad nauseum).
All about opinions OddDog.But i can think of lots of top class horses that won only 2 Group 1,s.
Anyone can pick holes in any horses form.We could go on all night,but its immaterial.
Anyone can pick holes in any horses form.We could go on all night,but its immaterial.
If this was the Golden Age, which I don't doubt, then 71-72 must have been the Platinum Age. Not sure about 1947!!
Zilzal was exceptionally good. He was highly temperamental though. Warning was good but his form a bit brittle.
Zilzal was exceptionally good. He was highly temperamental though. Warning was good but his form a bit brittle.