Players Bought Under Brendan Rodgers at Liverpool 2012-2014 A Review Hi folks! With the background of our recent goalless draw at home to Sunderland in mind, our (Rodgers), ability to spend money has been put into serious question (if indeed it is Rodgers who identifies targets as we are led to believe). The following is a table of his signings since being at Liverpool (made by myself), including whether I believe they have made a 'hit' or been a 'miss', and whether I consider them 'value for money'. This unfortunately makes for some pretty painful reading! [table="width: 800, class: grid, align: left"] [tr] [td]Player[/td] [td]Bought From[/td] [td]Transfer Value[/td] [td]Hit or Miss?[/td] [td]Value for Money?[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Fabio Borini[/td] [td]Roma[/td] [td]£10,400,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Joe Allen[/td] [td]Swansea[/td] [td]£15,000,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Oussama Assaidi[/td] [td]Heerenveen[/td] [td]£3,000,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Nuri Sahin[/td] [td]Real Madrid[/td] [td]Loan[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Samed Yesil[/td] [td]Bayer Leverkusen[/td] [td]£1,000,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Daniel Sturridge[/td] [td]Chelsea[/td] [td]£12,000,000[/td] [td]Hit[/td] [td]Yes[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Philippe Coutinho[/td] [td]Inter Milan[/td] [td]£8,500,000[/td] [td]Hit[/td] [td]Yes[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]João Carlos Teixeira[/td] [td]Sporting Lisbon[/td] [td]£830,000[/td] [td]Has potential[/td] [td]Yes[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Luis Alberto[/td] [td]Seville[/td] [td]£6,800,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Largo Espas[/td] [td]Celta Vigo[/td] [td]£7,000,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Simon Mignolet[/td] [td]Sunderland[/td] [td]£9,000,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Kolo Toure[/td] [td]Free Transfer[/td] [td]£Free[/td] [td]Debateable[/td] [td]Yes[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Aly Cissokho[/td] [td]Valencia[/td] [td]£850,000 loan payment[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Mamadou Sakho[/td] [td]Paris St Germain[/td] [td]£15,000,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Tiago Llori[/td] [td]Sporting Lisbon[/td] [td]£7,000,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Victor Mosses[/td] [td]Chelsea[/td] [td]£1,500,000 loan payment[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Rickie Lambert[/td] [td]Southampton[/td] [td]£4,500,000[/td] [td]Debatable[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Adam Lallana[/td] [td]Southampton[/td] [td]£23,000,000+[/td] [td]Debatable[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Emre Can[/td] [td]Bayer Leverkusen[/td] [td]£9,750,000[/td] [td]Has potential[/td] [td]Not currently[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Lazar Markovic[/td] [td]Benfica[/td] [td]£19,800,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Dejan Lovren[/td] [td]Southampton[/td] [td]Up to £20,000,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Divick Origi[/td] [td]Lille[/td] [td]Up to £9,800,000[/td] [td]Has potential[/td] [td]Not currently[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Javier Manquillo[/td] [td]Atletico Madrid[/td] [td]Loan[/td] [td]Debateable[/td] [td]Yes[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Alberto Moreno[/td] [td]Seville[/td] [td]£12,000,000[/td] [td]Debateable[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Mario Balotelli[/td] [td]AC Milan[/td] [td]£16,000,000[/td] [td]Miss[/td] [td]No[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]25 players[/td] [td]Total Cost[/td] [td]£212,730,000[/td] [td]9% Hit Ratio[/td] [td]5/23 value for money[/td] [/tr] [/table] Notes on the above -The above are my own opinions. I have tried to be as honest as possible without the red tinted shades on, so if there is anything you do not agree with then please comment below. - The 9% hit ratio excludes the 3 I have identified as having potential (Teixeira, Can and Origi) as they have not had a fair crack of the whip yet. The 5 debatables I have included in the calculation as they haven't done enough to be declared an obvious success imo (Toure, Lambert, Lallana, Manquillo and Moreno). There is obviously scope for them to perhaps improve. - I have not included those described as 'not currently' (Can, Origi), in the calculation representing value for money of Rodgers signings, as again they haven't had a fair chance just yet. Observations The above goes to highlight the woeful transfer efforts of the past two years under Rodgers and represents a serious problem in us moving forward as a successful club. A shocking 9% hit ratio with just 5/23 players identified and purchased being described as 'value for money', is just horrific and quite frankly embarrassing. By my own findings, I make out of the £212,730,000 spent in 2 years, just £20,500,000 represent players who can be considered a genuine success (Sturridge, Coutinho), with a further £20,380,000 on the three guys yet to play regularly (Teixeira, Can, Origi), and £39,500,000 on those I've considered debatable successes, which includes Lallana and Moreno who should kick on in the future. That is a total of just £80,380,000 worth of players who could be considered a success/worthy of purchase, with an eye watering £132,350,000 wasted at 62%! This is obviously not acceptable, nor sustainable. Moving Forward - Why do you feel we are failing with transfers? Is it Rodgers? The board? Stature of the club? - What can we do to improve our hit rate? - Will the lack of success of the current signings lead to a hangover where we cannot compete at the top for a number of years? - Where does this leave Rodgers? - Do we let him have more money to spend? - Do we need a Director of Football? - Would you have one?
All are responsible for this debacle: - Rodgers for tinkering with philosophies and not knowing what he wants - Fallows for stinking at managing and reviewing scouting - Edwards for his stupid computers spitting out nonsense - Ayre for not doing a better job negotiating - FSG for setting up a miserable committee structure and not adjusting fast enough
A fair point about Ayre. With those failed windows and shocking value for money, he must be looking over his shoulder a bit.
Good thread, well done, well constructed. For me ok debateable is a wee bit harsh on manquillo, Moreno, ok he doesn't look like he ever defended in his life so I seriously wonder about our coaches I agree with livtor on fallows and of course Rodgers. I'm sorry but the thought that a compromise was reached between a manager and head or recruitment where neither mans target was bought but badontelly was instead is so dreadful that while probably untrue it is still stinking Honestly.... Looking at that list I'd be sacking left and right but that's just me. I feel lfc's best team right now after all those signings Still contains Skertl (barely) johnson(unjustifiably) Enrique, Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson and we'd have to argue that sterling is not his either... And had he not ****ed over reina and made agger cry both of them would be playing this weekend Reina Johnson Skertl agger Enrique Gerrard Lucas Henderson coutinho sterling Sturridge Let's be f'n honest here... Suarez was gone always but if Rodgers had not pissed the two off.... Well the sum total of Rodgers work is to build a bench and but two players and develop sterling It's damning indictment of lfcs recruitment policy and actions
I don't think we can rate players from this summer yet, good or bad. Even Sakho, Mignolet, Ilori & Alberto need time to see where they are going. And rating Allen as a miss is harsh in my eyes, he does the job he's been bought for well and when he's in the team we generally play a lot better than we do without him.
Wouldn't call Allen a miss although he isn't value for £15m. Markovic is hardly a miss yet - or Ilori. But grim reading indeed.
I wouldn't say Allen is a hit but he's not a miss. Agree that you shouldn't be reviewing the current set of transfers but based on the limited appearances, Can, Moreno and Manquillo would be hits. Lallana and Lovren would be misses. Also, Ilori is a player for the future so wouldn't class him as a miss. Personally, I think we need to keep the commitee but they need to be headed by a DoF, with Rodgers completely away. The committee have made some very good signings - Sturridge, Coutinho are the biggest hits. Players like Sakho and Sahin have immense potential and quality but are being managed poorly - is that because the players aren't good enough or is it down to the manager? The committee have bought 4 youngsters this summer - all of whom have incredible potential: Can, Moreno, Manquillo and Markovic. With the exception of Markovic, they have slotted into the first team and been very good. The problem is that Rodgers signed 2 players this summer for big money who were supposed to be marquee signings - Lovren and Lallana. Personally, I believe if the committee had their way, we would have signed players like Firmino and Lacazette. Of course, these are my opinions and not fact. But as I say, I think the committee are better at spotting talent and at good prices. They just need to have Rodgers to focus purely on coaching. My concern is that Rodgers wants to be Manager as opposed to First Team Coach. This means even if we do have a DoF, Rodgers will work with the players 'imposed' on him but we'll see more Sakho like incidents where he will alienate these players in favour of his favourites.
Just to add to the committee finding value: Sturridge, Coutinho, Can, Moreno, Manquillo and Markovic = £65m and a good chunk of that is on Markovic alone. These are players who can spend a decade at the club and have great potential. Now look at Rodgers signings: Allen, Borini, Lallana, Lovren and Lambert = £75m. Some will mention the likes of Alberto and Aspas - we should remember that the committee were buying for a team out of the CL, with limited appeal and limited cash. The risks of finding these hidden gems are great.
FFS could've told you he'd/we'd made all of two decent signings in Coutinho and Sturridge without a ****ing table, piechart and spreadsheet. Actually it's possibly only one decent signing since sturridge has practically merced himself out of this season
Cheers mate - it took me ****ing ages! A good idea got out of hand! It really is damning. Although at the time I thought it correct to get rid of Reina and Agger, I totally agree if they both were available this weekend then they would (should) have played. Its a right old mess, and I agree about firing those involved. What other financial company wastes than much money and doesn't see heads roll?
Quality thread Bow, I don't entirely agree with some of the individual player analysis's but good thread all the same
Ta I have been a little harsh perhaps, but then I have taken some of the potentials and Moreno/Lallana into the overall calculation at the end. Mankiller is on loan so has little bearing on the numbers. I just want us to be rutherless. Buy players who will fit in and improve us now! Not maybe in 5 years time!!! We spend s**t loads on potential. Too much imo.
A few I think need to be in the "neither hit nor miss" category. Players like Allen, Mignolet, Sakho. Bit harsh to call players like Ilori, Alberto, Markovic a miss considering they've hardly even played for us yet. Other than that, can't really disagree on much. As has been mentioned quite a lot, apart from Sturridge and Coutinho who have been the real standouts, the rest are either debateable or a mi which just isn't a good enough record. However what I would say is that a lot of them are young and in 2 or 3 years time we might see them all starting to become very good players for us.
The ones I don't agree with are Allen, Mankiller, Moreno and Lallana. Allen has been with us a while and is very much part of the squad. Fair enough we paid £15 so you could say we expect more and you could easy point out that he's not a first team regular but for a first buy prior to assessing the squad and still part of the plans two and a half years later, I wouldn't call him a flop. Mankiller as to be considered a hit IMO. He's here on loan and he's been our best defender this season (not that that's much of a achievement ) Moreno has looked very good despite a couple of errors. For a 21yr old, he's going to be a quality signing IMO The only issue I have with Lallana is the cost. I think he is a quality player; can use both feet, works hard, very quick tricky feet, can finish / assist, has good movement and is versatile too that just lacks a bit of pace and rarely runs at his man.
Sakho has to be in the miss column. As much as I don't like judging players on their transfer fee, you can't spend £17m on a back-up! Agree on Ilori and Markovic though
But you're ignoring the table. It's "Hit or miss" and Value for money. Someone can be a hit (or debatable) but not be value for money. I'd class Lallana as one of those, a good player who could be a hit as the season goes on but will probably never be value for money.
The ones you have mentioned I had most problems with. I actually added the value for money section as a way of trying to balance things. I like Lallana, but he hasn't quite done it for us. He's done 'okay' which is not a great return for £23 mill - not enough at all really. He will though I think. Allen is debateable. He's done okay. But if we're brutally honest he's barely first team level. He's has been a 6/10 for us which is a terrible return for £15 mill and I don't consider him getting better. I think if we're ruthless he has not been a hit. Maybe not quite a miss, but not a hit. We were raving about his passing being amongst the best in the league which it patently is not. Mankiller has been okay. I haven't said he's a miss tbf. I think its a bit much for a 'hit' as he cant hold a place down. One of the better signings and he's only on loan sadly! Moreno I have included in the £83 mill where I have he may tern out a good signing, and I think he probably will. But again he hasn't really excelled just yet. Give it a year or so and Moreno is a regular I would think. I think as it stands I cannot say we are in any better position than last year in terms of the squad which is criminal.
