2012 overtaking rule change making it to easy for drivers ?

[martial artist]

one of the recent rule changes for 2012 concerns overtaking maneuvers , in there wisdom the FIA have now said that when a driver is defending a place , once he moves off the racing line to defend his place he cannot move back on it again until he is passed -

this to me smacks of the FIA clutching at straws to increase the overtaking spectacle once again , basicily in simplistic terms they are stopping a slower car from defending his place from a quicker car ,

isnt it enough that the following car has the phoney manufactured advantage of the DRS option over the lead car , the FIA now seek to give the chasing car a further advantage of telling the lead car it cannot go back on its natural racing line after rightfully defending its space -

do we really want the sorry spectacle of lead cars now having every defending weapon removed when attempting to hold on to a place , in fairness isnt the DRS option really enough for a following car without yet another manufactured rule to give yet another manufactured advantage to the chasing driver ,

lest we all forget one the abiding memories of 2011 was schumacher with all his skills involved brilliantly holding of the quicker mclaren of hamilton at monza for 25 laps or whatever it was , a spectacle that had us all glued to the screen ,
do we really want future battles like that made non existant because of yet another manufactured rule change to aid the chasing driver , hasnt the DRS option made there job easier enough -

personally as a purist i think this latest rule change is making it to easy for the drivers and in some respects makes a mockery of the principles of the sport --

not sure if any of my fellow buds on here agree with me on this one ,
--------------- over to you buds --

 

[BrightLampShade]

What I want to know is does this ban drivers cooling their tyres off line on a drying track, and how soon can they move back to the racing line assuming there is no over take? Its massively open to interpretation, which usually isn't a good thing.

 

[El_Bando]

stupid rule which will just end in contact anyway.


So F1 its not about Talent anymore. Its about who has the fastest car because nobody can stop you!

 

[martial artist]

What I want to know is does this ban drivers cooling their tyres off line on a drying track, and how soon can they move back to the racing line assuming there is no over take? Its massively open to interpretation, which usually isn't a good thing.

i did think the same myself bright , like any ill thought out rule change there will allways be alot of inconsistancies involved in it --

hopefully it will be one of the rule changes that proves to be unworkable --

 

[BrightLampShade]

i did think the same myself bright , like any ill thought out rule change there will allways be alot of inconsistancies involved in it --

hopefully it will be one of the rule changes that proves to be unworkable --

Its becoming ever more about who can go the fastest in a straight line, whilst defending will mean stay on line and hope to get them back with a better exit. I can think of several loop holes so I'm sure the teams will be able too as well. Going off line before a corner will still have you rejoining the line at some point during the corner, for example.

 

[martial artist]

Its becoming ever more about who can go the fastest in a straight line, whilst defending will mean stay on line and hope to get them back with a better exit. I can think of several loop holes so I'm sure the teams will be able too as well. Going off line before a corner will still have you rejoining the line at some point during the corner, for example.

the rule if it ever happens is just unworkable bright , does the F1A really expect the drivers to stay off the natural racing line after just one solitary defending maneuver -

to be honest if it is introduced and draconically enforced on every driver from the top to the bottom of the grid i personally believe it will all end in tears --

 

[beeforsalmon]

Is this really being introduced?!

 

[BrightLampShade]

Is this really being introduced?!

Yup, the exact wording (as released):
- Drivers may no longer move back onto the racing line having moved off it to defend a position.

Its a unusual one for sure.

 

[SgtBhaji]

Stupidness... The art of defending a position is and should be as important as the art of overtaking.

I'd rather see one epic battle in a race over 50 manufactured overtakes.

I'd say i'm a purist when it come to this also. If you can't find a way around the car in front of you, tough!

 

[martial artist]

Stupidness... The art of defending a position is and should be as important as the art of overtaking.

I'd rather see one epic battle in a race over 50 manufactured overtakes.

I'd say i'm a purist when it come to this also. If you can't find a way around the car in front of you, tough!

we sing from the same hymn sheet bhaji ,
i cant even see the logic of introducing such a ruling other than to make it even easier for the following driver to pass a slower car purely for the visual spectacle if you can actually call it that -

typical FIA , after years of getting it wrong with the refeuling era from 94 to 09 where no bugger passed any other bugger they now go overboard and make it so easy a ******ed chimp would be able to negotiate a passing maneuver -

 

[Masanari]

Stupidness... The art of defending a position is and should be as important as the art of overtaking.

I'd rather see one epic battle in a race over 50 manufactured overtakes.

I'd say i'm a purist when it come to this also. If you can't find a way around the car in front of you, tough!

This. I love watching good defending, Kubica was very good at it. Monza 2010 was brilliant with Button and Alonso battling it out without an on-track pass, I would much prefer seeing that or Senna v Mansell at Monaco, Alonso v Schumacher at Imola, than some overtaking that is either super easy to pass and can just drive passed them or that they can't defend their own position.

 

[u408379965]

If you can't find a way around the car in front of you, tough!

What if the car in front swerves across in front of you every time you go to make a move down the side? It becomes impossible (not difficult, impossible) to overtake and the only way past would be to slam into the car in front and pray they come off worse. People are talking about the art of defending but there's no skill in chopping a driver who's about to make a move on you.

I love a good scrap between two drivers, I thought the battle between Massa and Button in Australia was one of the most exciting passages of racing this season, but some drivers (see Schumacher in Monza) fail to comply with a code of conduct that exists right through every category of motorsport, and rather than applying common sense and simply punishing drivers who cross the line, the FIA feel they need a strict set of guidelines by which to act.

This rule is ridiculous, but unfortunately the actions of the minority make it necessary until the FIA show some backbone and clamp down on dirty driving.

Don't forget this is the second consecutive season we've seen a rule of this nature introduced. Last season it was the one move when defending after Hamilton's escapade in Malaysia, which has now been amended because Schumacher "found the (bullshit) loophole" of coming back onto the racing line. This will run and run to include tyre cooling and all the rest of it until the point where the FIA have an entire catalogue of acceptable ways to defend each and every corner on the F1 calendar, either that or they start to apply common sense.

DRS should be scrapped.

 

[martial artist]

What if the car in front swerves across in front of you every time you go to make a move down the side? It becomes impossible (not difficult, impossible) to overtake and the only way past would be to slam into the car in front and pray they come off worse. People are talking about the art of defending but there's no skill in chopping a driver who's about to make a move on you.

I love a good scrap between two drivers, I thought the battle between Massa and Button in Australia was one of the most exciting passages of racing this season, but some drivers (see Schumacher in Monza) fail to comply with a code of conduct that exists right through every category of motorsport, and rather than applying common sense and simply punishing drivers who cross the line, the FIA feel they need a strict set of guidelines by which to act.

This rule is ridiculous, but unfortunately the actions of the minority make it necessary until the FIA show some backbone and clamp down on dirty driving.

Don't forget this is the second consecutive season we've seen a rule of this nature introduced. Last season it was the one move when defending after Hamilton's escapade in Malaysia, which has now been amended because Schumacher "found the (bullshit) loophole" of coming back onto the racing line. This will run and run to include tyre cooling and all the rest of it until the point where the FIA have an entire catalogue of acceptable ways to defend each and every corner on the F1 calendar, either that or they start to apply common sense.

DRS should be scrapped.

see where you are coming from AG , but how often do we see blatent weaving anymore , we just dont see it now as the penalties involved normally outweigh the risk of doing it -

agree with you about DRS , the sooner it is resigned to trap 1 the better --

 

[u408379965]

see where you are coming from AG , but how often do we see blatent weaving anymore , we just dont see it now as the penalties involved normally outweigh the risk of doing it -

Thing is, when it does happen they don't do anything, then everyone moans about it so they change a rule to make it look like they're doing something. This kind of reflects my thoughts on the house rules and life in general, everything is so constricted by legislation and red tape, the drivers know when they've crossed the line and so should the driver stewards. In no other sports are teams allowed to haggle over punishments, what the stewards say should stand at the end of the day, they shouldn't be challenged by team principles and drivers who wriggle out of punishments on loopholes in the rules. You don't get footballers elbowing opponents in the face as they take the ball and then saying "technically I got the ball and my momentum broke his nose, therefore it's not a red card".

 

[martial artist]

Thing is, when it does happen they don't do anything, then everyone moans about it so they change a rule to make it look like they're doing something. This kind of reflects my thoughts on the house rules and life in general, everything is so constricted by legislation and red tape, the drivers know when they've crossed the line and so should the driver stewards. In no other sports are teams allowed to haggle over punishments, what the stewards say should stand at the end of the day, they shouldn't be challenged by team principles and drivers who wriggle out of punishments on loopholes in the rules. You don't get footballers elbowing opponents in the face as they take the ball and then saying "technically I got the ball and my momentum broke his nose, therefore it's not a red card".

i am not quite sure when the last case of blatent weaving actually was AG , in fairness i think it happens so rarely it cant be a real issue ,

i suppose it is catch 22 and what we really want to see , do we really want overtaking made so easy it is no longer an exciting spectacle or do we want to see a bit of cut and thrust when we watch two cars locked in combat -

 

[allsaintchris.]

Don't IndyCar also have this rule too?

Makes the racing look even more sanitised.

I do wonder how strictly it will be enforced, and how much debate it will create on here when it is/isn't

 

[SgtBhaji]

I'd still prefer to see a good honest fight over a wave by. One of the highlights of the season for me was watching Schuey and Hamliton duke it out. Quality stuff!

It's like the leading driver has no way to defend an overtake at all now other than saving KERS and hoping it's enough. Give me the tooth 'n nail scrap any day of the week!

Surely it's not too difficult to give somebody a warning if they are taking their defensive driving beyond what's acceptable and then hit them with a drive through if they persist.

 

[Di Resta is faster than u]

pathetic

 

[Forza Bianchi]

Not only does the rule have the potential to make racing anti-climatic and unexciting (which is sort of happening with the DRS effect), but it can't be easy to police either.

How can the stewards determine what is a defensive move and what isn't?

It was only when Schumacher moved back to racing line in Monza that this was supposedly unaceptable, but drivers do it to each other all the time and they nobody complains and the stewards never penalise drivers for it. Schumacher vs Hamilton in Monza was exciting - If the FIA are trying to attract more casual viewers, why take away that excitement just for a few more cheap overtakes?

 

[SgtBhaji]

Not only does the rule have the potential to make racing anti-climatic and unexciting (which is sort of happening with the DRS effect), but it can't be easy to police either.

How can the stewards determine what is a defensive move and what isn't?

It was only when Schumacher moved back to racing line in Monza that people started complaining, but drivers do it to each other all the time and they nobody complains and the stewards never penalise drivers for it.

I personally had no issues with Monza and didn't hear a whole lot of complaining (that I recall) on this side of the pond. That was what racing is all about to me.