In reaction to the furor and tributes coming in for Fergie from all directions I thought I'd set this up as a separate thread - I would be very interested to see the lists which we can come up with as to the all time hall of fame of British managers. The criteria which you use are your own - only they must be British. My list is as follows (Will be interesting to see how others vary - according to age etc.) 1. Bill Shankly. 2. Sir Matt Busby 3. Brian Clough 4. Bob Paisley 5. Sir Alex Ferguson 6. Sir Alf Ramsey 7. Bill Nicholson 8. Bobby Robson 9. Jock Stein 10/11. Saint Graham Taylor or Kenny Dalgliesh Cloughie is so high because he took two unfancied teams from division 2 to the league title and one of them to the European Cup (Twice) - could even Sir Alex have achieved this at a club of Nottingham Forest's standing ? Kenny Dalgliesh is on the list because he guided Liverpool over the most difficult period of their history (From Heysel to Hilsborough) and his role at that time went far beyond football - I also think he would have achieved as much as Paisley did had Liverpool not been banned from Europe at the time.
Some interesting choices there, I am surprised that Terry Venables does not feature, I'd also pop in a couple of our managers, John Bond got us playing proper football and Mike Walker led our expedition into Europe, I also feel Malcom Allison might have a place! As for putting them in order of ability, goodness only knows!
Can't really argue with that list, I would have put them in mine although as you point out because of our age it ignores those pre war. Tommy Docherty came into my mind and I am not sure about Dalglish. Presume we ignore "the chosen one" and keep to the UK? Oh what about that bloke who used to manage Blackpool?
I'd probably go Ferguson Paisley Clough Nicholson Busby Stein Bobby Robson Alf ramsay Howard Kendall Graham Souness Couldn't really put them in order and omitted Shankly because he kick started what was in my opinion the footballing equivalent of the Mafia and i never liked him. I put Souness in there because he had a good record overseas, took one of the most controversial decisions in the social history of British football when he signed MoJo and, critically, oversaw the start of the demise of Liverpool and conversely included Paisley as he was a nice man. I'd love to have included GT but not sure I could really justify it.
Difficult to argue that most of the names on your list cologne deserve to be there but shocked at your ordering. Just because Man U are such a big club does not make SAF's achievements any the less - especially when you consider how long it took him to get it together - that was his doing - before him Man U were just another big club - now they are the World's biggest arguably. GT always said that achieving success initially was one thing but keeping at the top was much harder - as everyone wants to pull you down. ( I think he was referring to Liverpool when he said that) Shame you have excluded foreign managers.
To be fair, the argument about Fergsuon creating the biggest club in the world (and I agree) could probably more or less be attributed to Shankly as well (maybe not the world but he did make them massive) and the fact they came from the then second tier to win what they did under his mangement would be unthinkable now. I do agree with you though that it's the longevity which sets Fergie apart especially when added to what he did at Aberdeen It would be interesting to see with foregin managers as well but I note that much of the focus in the press this morning was all about the best British managers of all time . So much so in fact that the daily Telegraph doesn't even know there's a game in Leicester tionight!
I wasn't meaning to denigrate Fergie's achievements by placing him on 5 - but I think you'll maybe agree when I say that United, even though they won little during the 70' and 80's were still considered the glamour club of English football (They were certainly the richest, even then) and were,in a sense, sleeping giants throughout that period. The reason that they were such a big club hangs together with the Munich air disaster and with Sir Matt Busby's rebuilding of the club into one which won the European Cup in such style in the late 60's. Even the staunchest United fans would place Busby higher on the list. Shankly is so high because he changed a whole club, and not just the way they played, into something which has stood the test of time ever since. Paisley because he built on this and produced England's best ever Football team (and the best in Europe at that time). I don't think I need to explain the choice of Cloughie (I did it earlier). Also, as a young boy, I supported Watford and Liverpool ! - so Shankly was like God. Would like to see your ordering (and those of others) rather than leaving such things to the Telegraph etc.
The criteria being my own, I have donned my yellow-coloured spectacles... 1. Graham Taylor 2. Gianfranco Zola 3. Ray Lewington 4. Sean Dyche 5. Aidy Boothroyd 6. Kenny Jackett 7. Ken Furphy 8. Bill McGarry 9. Glenn Roeder 10. Ron Burgess
Alex Ferguson Bob Paisley Bill Shankly Herbert Chapman Jock Stein Brian Clough Alf Ramsey Matt Busby Bill Nicholson Bobby Robson Graham Taylor
You could argue that Clough only won stuff when he had Peter Taylor to hold his hand! He failed at Leeds on his own and he didn't win any major trophies after Taylor left him at Forest! I'm not wishing to diminish him but he doesn't deserve the 'god' like status either Sir Alf Ramsey is the greatest English manager for obvious reasons.
What he achieved with us was remarkable and certainly would have got him noticed at the FA. We were in the old 3rd Division South when he arrived and within 6 years we were Champions of England and the first club ever to win the title at the first time of asking.
