Ok, this may have been put somewhere at some point but I haven't seen any concrete answer if there even is one. What's the score with the 50 mil? Have they actually put it in meaning we owe nothing to anyone or is it on the never never, paid off over X years?
How many times does this have to be answered? IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE. The Allams own the club, they own the debt. Whether they have paid what we owed by using their own cash, or by factoring existing credit facilities makes no difference. The debt is/was theirs. For the record, not that it is relevant, the main creditors were Investec and HMRC, they have all but been paid.
Having a debt free club, or one with a £50M debt to the owners is very different if the owners decide they want to sell. If the club is debt free it's worth about £10-15M tops so that's all the Allams would ever get. (without promotion) If the club owed the Allams £50M and they gave away the club they would in future have the potential to recoup the entire amount by recalling it if the club ever had the assets to cover it. For what it's worth though, when there was the article about our £22M loss last season someone who seemed to have seen the accounts (I want to say petersaxton, but it might have been someone else) said that it had been put into the club as an investment or a gift and not a loan. I distinctly remember that being the case because I said I was disappointed it had been done that way (it's a pride thing). EDIT: That is relying on what the other poster having said been true, but I'm happy that's the case as I don't think I'd have been expressing disappointment at the time if I didn't think it was a reliable source.
from what i understand, of the £50m, £7m was paid upfront on various debts, tax etc... and the remaining debt has been taken on by the allams. bottom line is Hull City AFC is 100% debt free. if the allams pack up and move on, we are still debt free as they have taken the debt from us, they cant give it back.
Thank You, that's what I was wondering, as I don't spend much time in England I have to rely heavily on the internet & I miss quite a lot, this is one of those things that I missed!
According to the last filed accounts of the club, Allamhouse is a creditor of the club to the tune of £41m. The club has mortgaged all of the property it owns to secure (part of) that debt. So it appears that Allamhouse may have paid off the debts by way of a loan to the club.
If that's the case I wish the search function worked better on here so I could find out who it was that said it wasn't there as a loan so I knew who not to consider reliable in future.
If I knew how to I would attach a copy of the accounts on here. Note 12 to the accounts (detailing the creditors of the club) states: Amount owed to parent company - Allamhouse Limited £41,005,701
Adam repeated over and over again how much it was and how much was put in, surely that is good enough. In Adam some trust.
If I put £5k into your bank account to help you pay your mortgage wouldn't you look on it differently if it was a gift rather than a loan?
I need to have a proper look later, but that's the way I'm reading it. Allamhouse are our owners, and the Allams own Allamhouse. As at the end of July, Allamhouse had loaned us £41M. It's repayable as and when they decide, and if we're unable to repay they're able to take everything as their own (that mortgage agreement is for the £41M loan if anyone was thinking it was 2 seperate things). As we don't really have anything, and we're not likely to have anywhere near that level of asset value in the near future it's not an issue as it wouldn't be worth them doing. If we're now self sufficient they'd actually be better off selling us for a fair price and writing the debt off than they would be in shutting us down by recalling the debt. If we get promoted then that is even more the case, they could sell us for more as a PL club but our asset value would be unchanged. The loan appears to be interest free, which is definitely not the case for the loans we had before. I need to have a sit down and a proper look later on, because it appears we were being charged a higher rate of interest on the loans than I've ever had a credit card at so I must be forgetting something.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Did not the Allams also say that it was a Gift to the City of Hull so as a Gift - If they so choose to walk away then surely it should be left to a group of Hull City fans to run with or by the OSC also being involved. imo.
That's how I read them too. One further point is that, by securing their debt by way of charge (mortgage) over the clubs assets (Cottingham, Prinny Quay shop, anything else), then even if they demanded re-payment of the £41m immediately, they could not liquidate the club. You can only wind up a company if you are an unsecured creditor. As the assets of the club aren't worth £41m it would not make sense for the Allams to demand repayment. They would therefore have to try and sell the club (and make a loss), or write of the debt (making a loss). For the moment I cannot see the Allams going anywhere, and the only possible chance of them getting their money back is by increasing the value of the club (eg by promotion), making it worth substantially more than it is now.
It clearly was a loan and not a gift, unless the "gift" was still having a football club to support? Unless Allamhouse want to write of £41m they will no doubt expect to receive money for the club if and when they decide to leave.
Looking back at quotes AA did indeed say it was a gift. Well they can wipe the £41m off as a tax deduction/loss. The best option for us all is to get back to the PL and as quickly as possible. Then all debts can be paid and the club has money to play with. Simples.
