1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Grand Prix thread Not606 2016 Japanese Grand Prix Chat and Predictions

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by taeleon, Oct 3, 2016.

?

Take your pick for the number 1 spot this weekend:

Poll closed Oct 9, 2016.
  1. Nico Rosberg

    23.5%
  2. Lewis Hamilton

    64.7%
  3. Daniel Ricciardo

    5.9%
  4. Kimi Raikkonen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Sebastian Vettel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Max Verstappen

    5.9%
  7. Valtteri Bottas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Sergio Perez

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Nico Hulkenberg

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Other, please state in bold in the thread.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,983
    Likes Received:
    29,720
    So hamilton said it had done one race. Was he not saying it raced in singapore??
     
    #21
  2. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    13,495
    Likes Received:
    2,568
    Just Malaysia, although to add to FP3, quali and the race it also did a free practice in Belgium so that they could then change it again.

    Paddy Lowe mostly explained the situation now,

    “It [the engine that failed] is the specification we first introduced in Spa,” Lowe told Motorsport.com. “It did one practice session.

    “He still has the other one from Friday in Belgium that’s a ‘new’ engine, plus the one that he ran in Belgium, Italy and Singapore. We’ve got two full sets anyway.

    “So he is back to level terms with Nico in effect. It’s put him back to a five-engine programme rather than six engine programme for the year.”



    So he has one "new" PU left, one heavily used PU, and what ever they can salvage from the blown Malaysian one.
     
    #22
  3. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,983
    Likes Received:
    29,720
    Right so he ran one in 3 races then changed to this one so didnt in fact use it at singapore... sigh... i could not find anything on it.

    God only knows whats left of that one. Mgu or mgk etc. The flames from back there interesting and could be a few things.

    I would be more worried about why they took out the one with 3 races on it for this race but i suppose it could have been for straight horsepower.

    Dang it thought it was a neat theory. <laugh>
     
    #23
  4. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    13,495
    Likes Received:
    2,568
    It was a sound theory, unfortunately the experimental side didn't play ball :bandit:

    I guess they changed it as in Belgium they had 3 new PUs to do 9 races, three each, now he's going to have to reuse the Singapore one and have 4 races with one and 5 with the other (from the two new Belgium PUs). Not ideal but what the PUs would originally have had to do.
     
    #24
  5. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    811
    It's the new updated engine, so is there a design difference that has lead to the failure?

    Toto on the situation....
    "Most of the failures were not linked to each other – it was different failures. It was failures that were either in the supply chain, or material problems or assembly problems or just a mistake in the design or fatigue below the mileage it should have been, so there is no pattern in those failures that we can identify."

    Lowe confirmed that they were pushing Lewis for a window on a second stop, so as smooth and surreal has Lewis looked he was pushing, so was likely to be in a higher engine mode.

    Merc introduced open rear body work after Singapore because of cooling issues they had there, and this would fit with the radio messages of thermal problems in that race. We have often said in the past that when pushed Merc are likely to suffer.
     
    #25
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  6. happyal

    happyal Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    197
    Never good to go out of the race, but Lewis still has a pretty good record for his cars reliability, he can't complain too much.
     
    #26

  7. Sportista

    Sportista Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    884
    Likes Received:
    685
    New Merc engine specification, using the final tokens potentially available for Nico in Japan I thought?

    Would you take the "risk" in his position?
     
    #27
  8. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    25,633
    Likes Received:
    20,309
    I'm interested in seeing how well Alonso goes with the upgraded Honda, F1 really needs him in the mix.
     
    #28
    Number 1 Jasper likes this.
  9. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    811
    5th fastest track with an average speed of 225 and a top of 330 - as much as there is a lot of aero requirements this is a powere track with elevation - can see Honda struggling here.
     
    #29
  10. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,983
    Likes Received:
    29,720
    well they say they are 4th best team or whatever... we will see.

    I do think deployment is a key issue still.

    I can't wait for this one. there could be all sorts of action.
     
    #30
  11. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    811
    Could be interesting....

     
    #31
  12. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,983
    Likes Received:
    29,720
    it will probably kill driver feedback or we will see drivers quickly elect one guy to speak.

    I would feel that it is quite hard to "influence" stewards etc for the drivers if they all look like whiny fecks.
     
    #32
  13. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,983
    Likes Received:
    29,720
    Mercedes say is was hamiltons big end that failed.

    I had to read it twice big head or big end :bandit:

    Anyway.. bad Jokes aside they have given all mercedes poweted cars instructions on a more conservative oil soec and other unnamed changes.

    I would presume that means running lower power.

    They are also holding 5 customer engines back to look at them too so thats 5 drivers in trouble potentially for engines.

    The upshot is hamilton will use his singapore engine and Rosberg continues with his current one.

    This race just got tasty..... red bull will be chomping at the bit here.

    If i were hamilton i would be worried about this engine and hes just got to win and get through the race without blowing up.

    Seems a try to control from front race is coning which puts ricciardo right in the mix.
     
    #33
  14. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    811
    My minds playing tricks - I thought that said Mercedes says Hamilton is a bell end :undecided: #subconscious

    Merc run a different oil/fuel combination than customer teams and this was developed to allow them to run higher engine modes, reducing knock or being able to deal with it for longer periods without damage. The ability to do this has been the difference this year - most noticeable in final quali sessions, and the end of stints in races where they just seem to take off. I would imagine they have been running really lean on their mix ratios extracting maximum performance, and they have issued guide lines around their findings - whether that's transferable to other fuel/oil combinations in customer teams - who knows?
     
    #34
  15. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,983
    Likes Received:
    29,720
    Certainly will have to watch for suddenly mercedes power vanishing for sure.

    I think this puts hamilton's engine thats new in doubt but they are saying the singapore on has proved itself reliable so they are using that?

    they must be opening the 5 customer engines and looking at the bearings to figure out if hamilton's new engine will fail or not?

    I dunno... it'd be worth some penalty to change the bearing surely?

    Hamilton badly needs rosberg issue in the next race or two.


    The funny thing is if mercedes power vanishes and red bull are suddenly dicing at the top in each race (cos ferrari are muck) it could play right into rosbergs hands cos every win hamilton doesn't get drops the postential points gap he can haul in each race assuming hamilton beats rosberg.
     
    #35
  16. JonnyBaws

    JonnyBaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    717
    Don't think it will effect the race..
    If, as expected they put their (Merc) cars on pole and get away clean, no one is getting by..
    Its one of the hardest tracks of the year to overtake on.
    Last year, with that dog of an engine in the Merc some cars still found it hard to overtake down the main straight, even not running full beans, the Merc donkey will have too much grunt for most to get by..
     
    #36
  17. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,983
    Likes Received:
    29,720
    i dunno about that.

    1. its a high tyre degradation track
    2. its not hugley hard on brakes
    3. there is a decent drs section?
    4. theres the chicane after 130r.

    5. theres always the weather? any forecast yet? I've not looked.
     
    #37
  18. JonnyBaws

    JonnyBaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    717
    Merc's don't chew up their tyres when out in front.. In dirty air, granted, they're not great.
    But they get out in front, then the run up to the first corner, out of the chicane, even with DRS won't help and the short drag to the chicane from 130R isn't long enough nowadays..
    Weather, not sure, not seen the forecast..
    One thing is for certain, the track should suit RB more than Ferrari, I expect them to be the nearest challengers to Merc this weekend, in all conditions.
     
    #38
  19. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,983
    Likes Received:
    29,720
    everyone's tyres will be in question i think. some SEEM easier on tyres than others so i expect a mix of strategies..

    I think hamilton needs a clear run so this one is fascinating.
     
    #39
  20. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    811
    The track temp will be lower here than Sepang so its unlikely that the hard tyres will be that effective - which Merc had a clear advantage on. On the medium tyres RB were as quick (if not quicker) so that could spring a surprise and if they race on softs then Deg will play its part.
     
    #40

Share This Page