Off Topic The Politics Thread

Interested to hear what people think about Boris 'passionate about immigration, I am proud of my Turkish ancestry' Johnson's proposed amnesty for all illegal immigrants who have been here for 12 years or more.

Given his Turkish ancestry and the fact he was born in the USA, there may be some self interest involved.......

 

OK so here is the thing, I have read all the posts so far and some very good points and opinions from both sides of the fence!

My question is this, if the result is we leave the EU then will we have to negotiate a traid agreement with Brussels for their sprouts?

I don't want to be paying more for my sprouts!

 

A mediocre Championship team to possibly become even more mediocre.

I'm still not totally convinced.

Could you maybe find someone from academia to support this? ( I don't really understand academia so I'm using an awed and reverent tone when I say this). If you can't maybe we can create a Chery chair or a Polter post.

When you've done scraping at the bottom of that barrel sign me up.

The structured argument will have to wait for reasons I've given above and if we're getting into whataboutery then the real power grab is coming from where it's been coming from since 1974.

 

And it gets worse. No more petit pois. Just small peas. Chicken chasseur will be chicken hunters sauce. Pretentious middle class dinner parties from the seventies will be ruined.

 

Real chips at McDonald's
No more tiny French fries

 

If one of the campaigns be it the in or out had getting rid of McDonald's it would get my vote.

 

Look at us raising the debate.

 

Nutter!!!

 

The 'In' Campaign has targeted football now, saying players like Payat at West Ham wouldn't have been allowed to come and it will be hard to host tournaments... That means if we exit the Premiership will become crap.

 

I mentioned this earlier in relation to us, although it shouldn't be the number one priority for people it's interesting to consider the implications on not just us but the football league in general, most eu players outside the prem wouldn't pass current visa requirements and it's unlikely the government would change them for footballers as they haven't for non eu players, the likes of Polter and Chery wouldn't be players we would be allowed to sign.

 

So there would be more English players in the league's
England would have a bigger pool of players to choose from

 

That's one argument for but the overall standard would drop and the gulf between the prem and the league would only widen imo.

 

Same old same old from Farage on the Today programme, refusing to apologise for his ****ty poster, unable to utter the words 'Jo Cox', and wanting to take us back to the 1950s. His basic point was 'if we have confidence in ourselves, everything will be fine', a stunningly naive position. The world doesn't work like that. It's whether other people outside this country, institutions and 'markets' have confidence in us that counts.

I notice in the Times there is a cartoon in which he seems to be giving a Nazi salute, which even I would say is not on, especially in the context of Jo Cox's murder. I was genuinely shocked to see it. In two minds about whether to post it here, but my comment doesn't make much sense without it.

 

I think it's meant to mean a comment on his narrative taking control of the Leave campaign over more "moderate" voices of Boris and Gove. Surprised to see it in a Murdoch paper more than anything

 

Am I over playing the Nazi salute Toots?

Murdoch is backing both horses in his broadsheets, The Times is pro Remain, The Sunday Times pro Brexit. I never read the editorials in either though.

 

Daily Mail and The Sun are OUT - Mail on Sunday is IN

No better expression of how this referendum has split the country than seeing Boris's Dad on his soap box yesterday, passionate for IN

Watching out for the weather forecast for Thursday - so far, forecast is thundery rain...

and no, Stan, that's definitely a Nazi salute. Farage is moderate, pipe and slippers "Right" compared to what is emerging in some of the Continental countries

 

A much neglected aspect of the economic impact of Brexit is the affects it would have on the British tourist industry - which accounts for about 10% of our GDP (and has a much higher impact on London). Altogether about 3 million jobs are dependent on incoming tourism in the UK, and 63% of all holidaymakers are from the EU. In fact a quarter of this number are kith and kin of other family members who are working here, although they spend less than normal tourists they still bring in around 5 billion pounds per year, which more than compensates for any costs to the social system which their relatives here may cause. One of the rules of the EU. is that its citizens do not need a passport to travel around Europe - a national ID. card is sufficient - a post Brexit situation would require passports, which many eg. Germans do not have. There is also the emotional aspect - do you want to give out your money going to a country which does not have a 'welcoming culture' ? An interesting survey has indicated that a third of Italians and Spaniards, 30% of Germans, 25% of Frenchmen and, interestingly 12% and 10% of Americans and Canadians respectively, would be less likely to come to Britain on holiday in the event of a Brexit vote. Bearing in mind that London had over 17 million visitors last year, who spent around 10 billion pounds this is a potential economic catastrophe (to add to all the others). How is it that we are allowing these flag waving idiots to claim a monopoly on patriotism yet, at the same time, they are persuing a course which will cost millions of their fellow countrymens jobs ?

 

Offset against that a lower £, holidays here will be cheaper. If they can't be arsed to get a passport will they really get on a plane/train? Nothing to stop us continuing ID card travel for tourist and business travellers anyway. They will still come, the jobs will still exist. Shroud waving Cologne.

 

SB. It takes a few minutes to buy a plane or train ticket whereas a passport needs to be applied for well in advance. The pound may well go down, but prices will increase, which cancels it out. Most important is the message which Britain is sending out to the World at the moment - the survey was actually carried out by the tourist industry itself and even a 20% drop in tourism would have a very marked effect, particularly on London. People go where they feel welcome, they do not just go to see Big Ben etc. and English they can learn just as well in Ireland or Malta, the message is going abroad very strongly that Brexit is driven by Xenophobia, and this, in itself, will drive people away.

 

Well, the impression that all of the Europeans I was working with last week wasn't that we were driven by xenophobia but by dislike of the EU. Of course this can be nullified by Brits living abroad telling the locals that we are all xenophobic.

I am a remain voter, but this hysterical focus on the negative economic possible outcomes of leaving are turning people right off. What, in your view, are the positive reasons we should stay?