The difficulty remain have is that the reasons for staying can not be boiled down to easy sound bites such as immigration and nationalism, both of which lend themselves to easy slogans. When 90% of experts are just ignored or we are told they were wrong before so the 10% must be right we are living in a very upside down world. lets remember that people protests about TTIP have resulted in that being dead and buried because a few member states have said they will veto it. So the argument that TTIP will stop us from running the NHS they way we want is shot, plus if we decide that we want to renationalise the railways we can. Countries such as Turkey joining the EU, well all it takes is one country to veto them and they can not. both Greece and Cyprus would never agree to them joining so that is not going to happen. On trade both sides say we must be part of the single market. Those countries out side of the EU with access to the single market have to agree to free movement of labour, and agree to the standards set by the EU, with out having any say in what these are. They also have to pay to be a member and don't get any money back for farmers or regional aid. In the end we could be paying more to have less influence and no control over EU immigration. If you argue about the deal that Canada got remember that specifically exclude financial services, the bedrock of the UK economy. Both Paris and Bond want to be the centre of finance in Europe and if we leave they will be. Then there is the split up, lets remember that the EU countries don't want it to end and if they give the UK, well England, a good deal there will be no reason for others who might want to leave to stay. So you can bet they well give us the worst possible deal. Call that a scare story if you like but remember every thing is driven by self interest and as far as the EU goes that is the survival of the EU. So think very carefully before you are seduced by the very tempting calls to national pride and taking control back. It will not happen and we will be weaker and any money not paid to the EU will either have to be paid to join the single market or will be lost as we down grade our growth. It is notable that the commonwealth want us to stay as they see the UK as a platform to gain access to the markets in the EU, if we can not give them that they will find partners in the EU who will. For all of these reasons it has to be remain.
Well said. There's no good argument for leaving. At best It's all nonsense and misguided rule Britania romanticism. At its worst it's nothing more than racists and bigots screaming IMMIGRINT'S!!!!!
I can't be arsed to debate it, but I will make this one and only comment. To even contemplate leaving the EU is absolute and utter idiocy. End.
there are plenty of good arguments for leaving: regaining control over our own fishing waters removing the shackles of the closed european single market allowing free trade between Britain and the rest of the world removing red tape around manufacturing that limits British trade through artificial limitations, high taxation and preferred sourcing not allowing unelected officials to make laws and policy which directly effect us and holding those UK based politicians that do make policy to account channelling all the wasted funds paid to the EU back into British infrastructure specifically and most importantly the NHS lot's more i'm sure but these are standout arguments for me. nothing to do with immigration. i'm no bigot nor racist so get off your high horse, realise you don't know everything and go and find out. you've got less than 3 weeks to learn something. i suggest you spend it wisely.
I'm sorry but always seems to be the intellectual thing to do is stay and the white van man racist is trying to leave. I don't claim to be either of these things but to say there is no good reason for leaving is basically a stupid thing to say and belittling to anybody who does. I'm not voting to leave because of immigration or that I believe in rule Britannia or any of that jazz. I'm voting to leave because the EU is not a true democracy and I firmly believe that British business would be stronger out of the EU. Such arrogant comments above.
I have a severe case of ' not giving a ****'. Every 1 in 3 threads will just be the same ****e. You want something. Do it. Bleating ****ers.
I hoped to read a positive take on why we should stay in Europe when I clicked on this thread but it's just the same ****e our "experts" say we are better off in the EU and scaremongering that the stay campaign is built on. I honestly think that the world will keep on spinning and the country will keep on operating regardless if we stay or leave, yes there may be a short term economic back lash if we leave but that's got to be expected and shouldn't be the sole argument for staying. The immigration side of things doesn't bother me too much as I think that we'll still have immigration to this country regardless, for me the bigger issue is laws and regulations being forced on us from the EU much of which are of far greater benefit to other countries in the EU than they are to us, surely we're better off making our own laws to serve our own interests. Until someone can convince me that leaving will leave us in some real lasting economic trouble I think I'll be voting to leave, unfortunately everyone campaigning to stay is too busy presuming anyone who's thinking of voting to leave is racist, stupid and generally irrelevant.
I've had a complete open mind about the whole issue until about 2 days ago when I tried to cut through the bullshit on both sides. But since I starting telling people that I'm a leaver they look at me like I can't do basic math. I have a degree in manufacturing and have/still am working for European companies for the past 20 years and I'm be nether racist or stupid. i love the In supporters who just feel like they can see the whole matrix like puzzle and can't even break it down to simple folk like me.
Funny, do what I did and research it mate, my answer on here was that I choose to vote the way I want and won't be looked down on by anybody for that choice. What choice you make is your own and quite frankly I couldn't give a **** how you vote, broke down enough for you.
After being in for 40 years, about half the country want to come out. Not exactly a raging success. Out.
Why I want out (this could be my longest post ever). Trade - is the EU really going to try to stop us buying BMW's, Fiats, Renaults, etc by putting tarrifs on trade on Nissans? Toyota's? Honda's? Agreed they are foreign owners but produce for Europe in the UK. I think not. They start tarrif's and embargoes, we retaliate. I don't think it will happen. This is just an example of why trade won't be affected - never mind white goods/ foodstuffs, etc. Let's look at security. Are the French, Germans, Belgians really going to stop sharing information with us because we aren't part of the good ole' US of E? Really? It's not our fault we have the channel to protect us and filter who comes in. Should we scrap NATO? On Wednesday I heard on the radio-truly- if we start a points based system on immigration that EU would retaliate. The problem being? The NHS is under severe strain because of the influx of overseas newcomers to the UK. I have seen it during my work. People come in and one of the first things that happens is they get the operations they can't get for free at HOME. My wife worked in the passport office. Know a common trait of those that come here to settle - even without the right ? - knock a kid out and get it a British passport. Not an EU one, a British one. (BTW I know there isn't officially an EU passport). Lets look at schools...........No. Wait. I have many more reasons and arguments for getting out of Dodge. If I offend, I can't say I'm sorry because we are at a stage where if we don't look after our own and fight for. Great football forum innit? x
In or out what ever the result. It gets the government of the hook. WELL THE PEOPLE VOTED IT DIDNT THEY NOT THE GOVERNMENTS DECISION
I honestly believe wether we vote in or out it won't make one ****s worth of difference to the ordinary man and woman in 1 year or 20 years i am voting out because I hate the corrupt bastards.
